FEB 2010 No longer newborns!!

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Three months and counting, everyone! Our babies are gradually getting the hang of the world...and we are gradually getting the hang of them...

Hair loss oh yes. Hardly dare to wash my hair at the moment because it's scary!!Thought I would get away with it because it didn't start until dd2 was four months...

IC I was brought up in Germany..
How are you doing with the heat? I remember visiting Madrid and actually taking a picture of the temperature display reading 45..

Do you know what? I think someone mistook this year's weather order for Madrid and we got London's by mistake. It's been really cool and wet for the time of year. We had a couple of weeks when it was a bit more like the Spanish summer weather we expect, but then the temperature dropped by ten degrees and back came the rain. On the one hand, it means I'm not worrying quite so much about DD getting too hot and bothered and I can swaddle her again without stressing about her sweating too much, but on the other, it's a swine for getting the nappies dry.

Hair loss - yep, coming out in handfuls every time I wash it. Blimey, a bald patch fc! Eek!

Oh no IC, does not sound like Madrid at all! Mind you, we are all sleeping better since we came back (apart from the odd seagull or two). At my parents' we started all four in one room, then gradually spread across the house with one in my brother's old room, one in the living room, and two in the spare room, because it was just so hot (well, 29 degrees but awfully humid).
Wish I had any advice on Rosie's sleeping... Must say I am glad my two were a dream (literally) or else I am not sure I would still be sane (ish) and/or married. What does she do if you leave her for a minute or so (max 5) when she wakes? DD2 does occasionally wake early morning but tends to have a quiet chat with her cuddly bear and then goes back to sleep...

IC I am having very similar sleep issues to you, but I don't even get the 3 hour initial sleep. I used to, but then I think the 4 month sleep regression kicked in and now ds wakes hourly during the evening then 2 to 2.5 hours during the night. One day last week he slept from 11 until 6.30 and I was hopeful a corner had been turned, but the next night was back to normal. I also feed him to sleep.

After much research I have decided to leave the sleep training until 6 months. Most people seem to agree it is much more effective at that age. I started it at 4 months with dd and it took FOREVER. I have never tried any form of cc which is supposed to work more quickly, but is definitely not for me. I think that really I am secretly hoping ds will learn to do it by himself if I leave it until later. I have always been an eternal optimist!

Been losing a handful of hair every day for nearly 2 weeks now. It's quite horrible and I really want it to stop.

Back to work wasn't too bad, but what a mess in my office organisation!!!

DS has now decided that he wants to feed again at 2am! After 2 months without it, it's a shock to the system. Tonight I'll try a bottle of water and see what will happen. The only reason I feed him is because he cannot go back to sleep and cries every 10mn.

No hair loss here (touch wood)

Weather is not good here neither. Quite dam, and cold! So it's like been in October...

Sorry to hear about the difficulties you adn DH are facing Mamaloco. I hope things settle down again soon.

BC sorry to hear that you have had firsthand experience of the entire feed back too - its' quite a shock isn't it?! Glad the welcome meeting went well.

IC I think that how you deal with your baby in the night (and day) is entirely up to you. If you feel you can cope best with what you are doing, go with it. As her mum, you will know best. For me, feeding has never been an easy option so we have never started doing it in the night for resettles. My friend with an 8 month old is still feeding to sleep through the night and I don't think I would want to be doing it by then.

When DS1 was 6 months old we did a tiny snippet of my own version of controlled crying (waits to be lambasted...) and luckily only ever had to do 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 miinutes and by 4 minutes he had gone to sleep on his own and did from then on. I lay with DH and had to be cuddled because even for that period of time I hated it and we were very lucky that it worked very quickly.

Should also perhaps add that DH and I slept in separate rooms from when DS1 was 2 months old until about a month ago. This was partly to ensure that we could do alternate nights and get some sleep when DS1 slepttalked/shouted etc.. and partly becasue I was pregnant and uncomfortable. My new found (and much-loved) ability to sleep means that we can finally share a bed again - yehah!! May lead to some more spontaneous 'relations' rather than inviting one another into our respective beds!!

No hair loss here yet (17 weeks in) but remember it from last time.

We've been lucky with DD too, don't want to sound smug at all. I don't think there is a magic solution until they get a bit older. DD needed to be held all the time for the first two months and then just grew out of that. They really need their parents,especially their mums early on and we just have to respond to their needs. DD's need obviously changed and hence she cried less and less. I don't think there is anything I did or didn't do to change that. She still craves interaction, but now she wants us to make her laugh rather than console her. We do lots of dancing in front of the mirror and I have developed a range of funny sounds - buzzing like a bee being a favourite and singing the busy bee song and blowing raspberries.

With night waking though - during the night I let her go longer and longer with her gurgles before going to her - while always trying to avoid it escalating into a full-blown cry - and then one day she just settled herself back to sleep and that was it.

She has discovered her voice though and she sounds like the squeaky voiced guy from Police Academy - trying out a full range of squeals. DH went into her the other morning when he was leaving for work (5 am urgh) and he said that she just smiled at him and carried on discussing her plans for the day with her cuddly toy, as if he wasn't part of the conversation. She then went back to sleep until 7.30 - lucky me!

God, that all sounds so smug and patronising. Sorry! It's really not meant to.

I don't often get time to post here, but I do read regularly and enjoy all the updates.

In a slightly reminiscent (?) mood tonight as have just been thinking about this very day last year when I had awful stomach pains all day and put it down to the fancy boozy lunch I had on a rare day of escaping work to attend a course. Turns out it was DD burrowing down and getting comfy, as we found out the best news of our lives just a week later...

She's 16 weeks now, and still wide awake, making squeaky noises next to me, but just this once, I don't care, and I'm just enjoying the cuddles and her little hands grabbing mine.

I noticed earlier there is a February 2011 thread now - could hardly believe it.
So many people told me how time passed so quickly when they were tiny, and wouldn't you know it, they were right.
Thinking of all our Feb 2010 miracles tonight xxx

Aww, that's a lovely post, thanks stressheaderic.

GF DD did the same and had a bottle at 2 am this morning, the dummy wouldn't settled her.
Stress lovely post!
HAir loss here too, started 3 weeks after my cycles resumed, so may be a week ago, and getting worse.

Thanks all for your support, it is getting there, I hope, new DH job still on probation so a bit stressful (huge pay cut too, so not sure if it can work but better than nothing). For his dad it will be hard for a long time but after 2 months of grieving I think he should move on and think about the future (i.e. his 2 DDs), or am I too harsh? I am really getting tired to have a teenager on top of the DD (that's not what I signed for , am I too selfish?) I am a bit scared than I will crumble down soon, as I didn't take anytime off at all to have a good cry.
Sorry about the rant again.

We are boiling here, DD has been very grumpy yesterday and starting again this morning! may be grumpy isn't the word. She is complaining loudly all the
time (no real crying except if I leave her too long) unless I pick her up or talk to her face, she then smile. Isn't she too young to start playing me for a fool?

Aw, stress, I had tears in my eyes when I read that! You're so right, of course.

Thanks for the thoughts on sleep patterns. chinook I'm with you - waiting for 6 months before trying any sleep-training techniques (but trying to pave the way with bedtime routines and consistent-ish napping etc.)
bethylou you're right, I am lucky that I can feed DD to sleep and not have to do all the stuff you have to. I often think of you and what you have to deal with, the reflux etc. I don't really have it that tough at all, I know that... bless you!
bg leaving DD's whimpering means an acceleration of volume and energy which a)wakes up DH and b)makes DD much harder to resettle afterward, so I'm tending to respond reasonably quickly at the moment (having said that, I don't dive in instantly, just in case she's making the noises in her sleep....)
mamaloco sounds like you and your DH need each other's support more than ever at this time, but it's hard to give when you have the DDs to look after and the other life stresses. I'm not surprised you feel fed up. But be careful this doesn't drive a wedge between you which will be hard to close again...

Took DD to playgroup this morning in the sling - she was very good in it and even snoozed a little on the bus on the way back. Unfortunately, it's probably capsized her nap pattern for today, but it's good for both of us to get out and meet other mums, dads and babies. I even got to practice some Spanish!!

Feeling guilty - all the time. I seem to spend my day telling DD "just a minute" as I'm trying to wash up / get the washing on/off the line / get dinner / clean and tidy etc. Or have a quick peek at mn . Then I think, she won't be little for long (in fact she's not so little any more ), why don't I concentrate on her?

And I feel guilty that i've left her with my mum/DP for hours at a time when no other new mums seem to do that. And I've had a few boozy nights in with friends too, and no other new mum seem to do that either.

Hair loss started a few weeks ago .

I've had the same nappy-drying difficulties IC. The last lot I washed smelt all musty by the time they'd dried (inside, on an airer). Ugh. Lovely and windy today though, perfect nappy-drying weather!

chinook at being told off for not devoting time to the chicken!! And CROW!!! You are right, they have no idea what we do during the day. I think DP honestly believes I spend my day on MN (I don't, honest! I've just finished eating my lunch that's all!). He was very pleased with himself the day he looked after DD that "all you had to do was keep out of the house and keep moving". Well yes, so long as you don't have to do two loads of washing, BF her every three hours, do all the housework and get the dinner... Of course he didn't even manage the washing up he'd left from the night before.

Climber don't worry about the size of your DD. You are doing a great job and you can tell yourself if she's well - happy, wet nappies etc. Not all babies grow at the same rate - we're all different, aren't we? And good luck with the move on Friday!

mamaloco it sounds like you've had a really hard time. I hope you and your DH can work through it together. I remember that my dad fell apart when his dad died when I was eight. Very hard on you, though.

Sleep training - I'm a brand-new (or nearly four months now!) convert to the "whatever gets you through the night" school of parenting. I thought that I would have a routine, never have a dummy... In fact we run on baby time and she is firmly attached to her dummy. I haven't even stuck to the "no pink" rule. Practically impossible, wen all her new baby presents were pink clothes...

Oops, mammoth post. Maybe I do spend all my day on MN

IC quick update on the sleep training question. There was a sleep expert, Helen Ball, doing a live webchat today and I asked a question about wether sleep training was necessary, or do babies learn to settle eventually by themselves. She replied to me at 14.02 if you want to check it out, but basically she said they will learn to fall asleep by themselves and no sleep training is required. Hurray! She also said that babies who are exclusively bf tend to take longer to do this. My ds is ebf and I am sure your dd is too. So I will continue to feed to sleep happily for a while yet. Well, I wouldn't say 'happily' when it is 4 am, but you know what I mean!

Yepee! No feeding required last night at 2am but DS still woke up at 1.30am but resettle pretty quickly. Tonight he had his last feed at 8.30pm so hopefully he'll sleep longer...
This morning it was hard to get up when the alarm went off at 6am, I would have happily carry on sleeping. Then I fought sleep again at 2pm.

Good night all

oh fuckity fuck. I just typrd a huge long post with one hand (ds2 feeding/sleeping on me) and it's bloody well disappeared and i can't face typing it all again

IC Hope that my post about sleep didn't sound like I thought you should count your blessings cos we all have tricky bits to deal with (and the sleep issues felt much worse last time round for me, so I'm in a much better place this time. I think you can do pretty much anything if you've had some sleep and I really feel for you, and others getting little sleep, at the mo). Thanks for your thoughts, nonetheless.

Mamaloco it's a hard situation that you are both in and I can only say ow important it is that you noth try and keep chatting together. My Dad died a few years ago and the grief hit me in waves so it might take a while yet before he even realises how is acting. Is there someone that you can chat to too in order to make sure that you have a chance to think through your own thoughts? Look after yourself.

p.s. Love it StressHead. I remember specifically the day when I suddenly realised that I was pregnant unexpectedly (having had to try for several months with DS1). Still counting my blessings daily.

Today I took DS2 for his 4 month jabs at 3pm and then had to go back to see the GP with DS2 about the reflux at 4:30pm. Home for an hour in between to feed DS2 and burn off some of DS1's energy. In that hour all three of us needed clean clothes - DS1 wee'd himself, DS2 was sick over himself and over me! I'm sure the receptionist didn't notice but I felt a bit awkward anyway!!

This evening DS1 and 2 shared a bath together, without me in it to referee, for the first time. This looked very cute and DS1 was only somewhat bemused by the arc of wee that came from DS2 straight onto DS1's legs!! We reassured him that it was family wee (a phrase previously coined by my SIL when she copped it from DS1 on the change mat a couple of years ago!) and he seemed happy with that. He was also pleased to note that his willy was bigger than DS2's - it's good to see that these important comparisons start early!!

Hi All,

GF Hope your first day back at work was ok.

Chinook That's good about the sleep training because I am just letting things happen as they happen. I'm not getting stressed about how often he wakes at night because he always drops off again so quickly after a feed.

Does anyone know why the first sleep is the longest and then once they've woken the first time the intervals are shorter? Or is that not the case for everyone.

Mawbroon Sympathies on the disappearing post.

Bethylou It's nice once that third set of jabs are over and you don't need to think about them again for another 6 months. Love "family wee". My DH is the older of two brothers and it is really nice to see him and Sam together - they're so different but they really love each other (they are 2 and half years apart).

I was wondering what toys your babies are enjoying at the moment. We have three that are his favourites - the best one by far is one of those sensory blanket thingys - with all the silky tabs hanging off it and crinkly stuff inside, do you know what I mean?

He also adores his rainmaker rattle and this bee thing from the ELC www.elc.co.uk/toy/busy-bugs-activity-bug/

Does anyone have a jumperoo? I'm thinking about getting one, but they are massive and quite expensive.

OK, ds2 is settled and i have hands free to speeed type a bit!

Sleep training - did cc with ds1 at 7 months. It was awful. It did work after a few nights, and improved his sleep a little, but the slightest little thing threw it all off track. All we needed was illness, visitors, going away, or any other kind of upset, and we were back to square one. It took longer and longer to redo it each time and in the end, I decided it wasn't worth all the distress (for me too, not just ds1) and we abandoned it in favour of co sleeping - which is what I had really wanted to do all along, but everywhere around me people were telling me that he "should" be sleeping all night/rod for my own back/raised eyebrows etc etc. I now really regret all the crying I let him do, it was horrible. He is still not sleeping through the night every night, and it is now clear to me that he is just a rubbish sleeper and better sleeping would come with age. So, with ds2, we are going with the flow. He sleeps way better than ds1 ever did, so I think we will have him in bed with us until he's about a year and then chuck him in beside ds1 to keep him company.

Who asked about self weaning (think it was IC?). Yes, am letting ds1 self wean, sort of, I have been putting ideas in his head that he will be stopping soon, but ultimately the decision is his. We have come this far (4.8yrs) that I feel it will probably end soon.... I have bribed him with a present and he keeps telling me that ok, this is the last feed and then asking for another feed shortly after saying ok, this is my last ever feed, then I will stop. Sounds like a bloody crack addict, I tell you! I will probably do the same with ds2, but again, he behaves completely differently to ds1, so i wouldn't be surprised if he weaned much earlier. In fact, I would be surprised if he weaned first

Being sick - ds2 is sick a lot if I am a bit absent minded about which side I feed him on. I have a huge supply and if he gets both sides at one feed, he just chucks it all back up because there is too much. I try to go several hours on one side to keep my supply in check (it's called block nursing, a common trick for oversupply).

Hand foot and mouth - ds1 seems to be better now. He still is a bit tired, but that's usually the way after a viral illness. DS2 got a temperature and became very grumpy about 4 days ago. He doesn't have any symptoms of HFM, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was fighting it too. We had a couple of awful nights where I had to go downstairs with him for a couple of hours during the night so that he didn't keep the whole house (and the neighbours) awake and I was reminded about how bloody awful sleep deprivation is. Sympathies to those who are suffering from it, I know all too well from ds1 how dreadful it is.

What else? Hmm, not much really. Ds2 is growing in front of my eyes. We get our 4 month check next week and he will be weighed then. I'm sure he will have put on at least a couple of pounds since last month!

Right, gotta go. The house is a tip and I have a friend coming for lunch. Pizza dough is almost ready so need to get the kitchen tidied up so I can find a space to make it in!

Ooh, thanks for that chinook - I'll go check out the webchat. Reassuring to hear, though. I'm not kidding myself DD will magically become a better sleeper overnight (hah!) anytime soon. Hopefully in the longer run... [crossed fingers emoticon]

As for sleep training, the kind of thing I had in mind was more Elizabeth Pantley than Ferber. Not much point doing it before 6 months, anyway. My sister, who also EBF all her 4 kids did a little CC when they were older - around 16 months - and it worked within a couple of days (ten mins max) for all three of her daughters. Not for her son, though. He didn't start sleeping well until he was 4.
When my insomnia and IBS aren't adding to the sleepless situation, I can be pretty philosophical about it - like now! I seem to be able to function okay on the 4-5 hours of broken kip I'm getting (but I don't have to look after a second child or go to work, so that probably helps...)

Yes, bc, that longer stretch first, shorter stretches afterward is apparently a very common baby sleep pattern. DD did just over 4.5 hours last night before then waking every 1-2 hours...
I try full-on co-sleeping from time to time, but it's not always successful. DD either fidgets too much, wants to play, or wants to stay latched on for hours, which, although relaxing, isn't conducive to actual sleep (not for me, anyway) - mostly DD is in her babynest, but it's right beside me on the bed, so virtually co-sleeping anyway.

Interesting to hear your experience, mawbroon - and yes, it was me who asked about weaning. crack addict!! Maybe you should start flogging your milk, could start a whole new craze (might be one way of dealing with the oversupply) - shame you can't store it...

Don't worry bethylou, your post DID make me count my blessings, but only because I was reminded of your situation, not because it came across as finger-wagging in any way

Glad work is going ok, GF.

Toys - hmm, we only have the various cuddly toys that people have given Rosie (plus a few books) - other than that, we mainly improvise. DD is still a bit young to appreciate toys, although her home-made baby gym is popular for up to ten mins at a time. She doesn't have the patience or attention span to lay and play for much longer than that.

Home-made pizza, mawbroon...! yum, save me a piece (!)

bethylou love the bath story! I put my girls in together the ohter day and dd1 complained that dd2 was splashing too much!! Glad the younger one gets her revenge for being poked and prodded occasionally. dd2 is also a great one for trying to grab hold of and pull dd1's hair...

bearcrumble my LOs favourite activity right now is sitting in her bumbo in front of a tall standing mirror. She talks to the baby she sees for ages... She also loves her baby gym but tends to swivel round so she can kick the toys with her feet (I've got a wooden babygym, luckily quite sturdy), and she has a favourite book for bedtime.

IC you have a point about baby noises waking dh... mine complained on holiday that the baby was keeping him awake. Easier at home now with the girls each in a bedroom and us in another with the monitor on my side of the bed.
I am sure you are doing fine by the way. Some babies just need that closeness at night longer.

stress I also fondly remember last June but remember finding it hard to coordinate dd1's second birthday party while feeling pretty iffy

Not much to report from here other than I am quietly seething at the builders' next door (house has been completely gutted) who show up at 9, use all the noisiest powertools (eg. drilling off plaster or rendering) at lunchtime when I am trying to get dd2 to sleep , leave a cloud of dust on my washing, and then finish for the day at 3...

... that should have been 'LO's' and 'builders'...

Oh, and my LO has grown out of a few of her 3-6 months clothes already . She is long rather than big I think, so the feet are too tight or legs too short. Makes me a bit sad to pack things away... (I am refusing to give things away despite dh saying there is NO WAY we are having a third... we'll see )

dd2 just woke from her lunchtime nap looking like a mad professor... she likes to play with her hair and one side looks like she's tried back-combing (scuttling off to get camera...)