One small step for Baby, one large step (or mad dash to prevent disaster) for Mumkind

[ninja]

Hi, Welcome to the new thread, the one where we can't drink a cup of tea in peace (there you go, we could have used that for a title!!)

I was in bodyshop yesterday and M trashed the place. Luckily the sales assistant thought she was sweet as she pulled things off displays and legged it out the shop with jars of body butter (several times)!!, cue me legging it after her with a handful of makeup . Luckily there were no store detectives aroud. She also tried to wear every shoe within her reach at the shoe shop.

Digi - I was really knackered and feeling very snippy the other day and ds was pissing around with his food (one of my pet hates) and to my eternal shame I smacked the back of his hand.

He yelped (out of shock I think).

I felt bloody awful and totally useless.

He carried on doing the thing that was pissing me off in the first place.

So, after (rightly) beating myself up for lack of self control, I realised that I had knowingly physically hurt my child, and he didn't even understand why I was cross, which was proved by him carrying on doing what made me annoyed.

I was smacked as a child and I think that's part of my problem. Being smacked hasn't harmed me as such, but I do think it's almost legitimised it - even though it's a route I choose not to follow.

What a ramble, I hope it makes some sense to someone!

Very interesting starlight I've not really thought about strategies for punishment, he's so young right now. I agree they are too young to understand. As iltmimi just proved, in all likelihood the two times I've nearly raised my hand wouldn't have made the slightest difference to his behaviour.

And yes it was a nappy change today. The sight of a wriggly bare bottom that wouldn't keep still enough. But the other time was whilst on holiday, ds was wriggling and whinging like crazy about 4am after a night of hourly waking and demanding to be fed back to sleep whilst co-sleeping. My sleep deprived brain lapsed in judgement for a split-second, thankfully my hand was far too knackered to respond. And I spent the next half hour wondering what on earth had overcome me, and why after never ever considering it before why had i thought if it now.

I know it will probably happen one day, but maybe i'll be like my mum and save the slap for a particularly petulant teenager.

I haven't smacked either of my dc's yet, although TBH DS's behaviour has been pretty dire lately and part of me is tempted to do it when he is really naughty. I was smacked a lot as a child, when it really wasn't needed, so I'm sort of going away from smacking. I think I'm in the minority though, I'm sure it doesn't scar kids for life, but I can't see what good it does. Mind you, i look at my friends children and wonder if they are well behaved because there is the threat of a smack hanging over their heads, while my ds is being a handful because he couldn't care less what the consequences are - time out, telling off, loss of toys - big fat deal .

However, I have yelled at DS a lot lately, and DD has had her share of sergeant major shouting from me when I'm at the end of my tether with both of them.

Having said all that, they were actually lovely today. I am trying out an asking him to do something (getting ready, tidying etc)then ignoring him technique with DS. It totally throws him so he does what he is meant to do then comes back and says "mummy, I have done XXXXX, I have made you happy!".

On a lighter note I have to inform you that I have re-named DD "Princess Piddle Bottom". She is such a wee machine when I take her nappy off and always manages to get onto the carpeted landing and leave a little puddle behind, she manages it within seconds of being undressed . Maybe she's marking her territory .

Love baby meglet's new name

Your thread the other day got me thinking starlight. My ds2 doesn't get much chance to run about either and does spend more time in the buggy than ds1 did at the same walking stage. So we went to a garden centre today that has animals and fish and I just let him walk about and decide where we were all going. DS1 struggled a bit with being patient when ds2 wanted to spend longer at things than he wanted to but on the whole it was good (apart from him breaking a christmas tree decoration)

First things first, WE'VE EXCHANGED!!!!!!! And we've hit the solicitor where it really hurts - our estate agent is no longer recommending that solicitor to their clients, so they're going to lose a lot of business. We're not the only people who've complained by the sound of it.

I've not been on here for a couple of days as I've been busy getting my first MN flaming on a thread about smacking, I've come here for a bit of peace and quiet and its what you're talking about too!

I think its a great idea to think about our parenting strategies and what we'll do as our kids get naughtier and more willful. A friend of mine who has an 8mo visited another friend with a 15mo. The toddler spent half an hour shaking a lamp, with the dad going 'stop that, don't do that'. He had no strategy to change the toddler's behaviour, and no respect or hint of obedience from the toddler, or consequence for disobedience. My friend realised that she doesn't want that and is starting to think now how she'll respond in such situations, which shows more foresight than I had when my pfb was 8mo!

We've been out playing in the forest this morning, both kids are now asleep in the car, neither will stay asleep when I move them, and its approaching dinner time so they need to wake up. Which one shall I bring in first?! Both will cry when I put them down to go and get the other! Maybe Mr Tumble can help...

If you go onto the NSPCC website and the parentline plus website there are lots of iddeas and tips for discipline that dont involve smacking - or hitting as I call it. It also goes into the reasons why smacking/hitting babies and children is not a good idea.

I am very anti smacking/hitting as you can tell!!! My ds1 is 6 and despite sometimes challenging behaviour I have never smacked/hit him. Or ds2.

I feel very strongly that sometimes we smack/hit out, not because of our childs behaviour, but because of how we are feeling at the time i.e. exhausted, ill, upset etc We mums are human, after all! I find the idea of any adult using their greater size and physical strength against a baby or child really disturbing.

Ok, rant over

...just as an aside, my dsis smacks/hits her dc and one day she smacked/hit her ds1 and he turned round and whacked her back and she told him off and said that "you shouldnt hit people" and his reply was;

"Why mummy? You just hit me!"

Makes me very sad

I must admit I do sometimes smack ds1 on the hand if he is being persistantly naughty. I do regret it though and am trying hard not to do it. And Becaroo you are totally right, it's more about me than him when I do it.
I also agree with ILTMIMI, I was smacked occasionaly as a child too and it hasn't done me any harm & I know what you mean about almost thinking that makes it ok then.

Haven't been tempted to smack ds2 though as he doesn't push those buttons yet.

WOOOOOHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Carrie

I think the regret is the the sad thing about it debs I know my dsis regrets it when she does it and I know my mum regrets hitting us so much when we were kids. I think its about finding other ways to vent our (very understandable!!!) frustration when we are dealing with babies and young children everyday in sometimes difficult circumstances.

Tbh, I didnt have strong views about smacking/hitting children til I had my own and as you say there is always the thought "well, didnt do me any harm!".

Can honestly say ds2 pushes ALL my buttons some days but I would never smack/hit him. I just couldnt.

Must go, time for Strictly it takes two...am such a saddo

Just quickly catching up - haven't read everything but just read your post about smacking DG and I thought isn't this thread amazing and brilliant in that we can ask questions/admit to things we may not ask in RL for fear of being judged. And no one here will jump down your throat - am feeling very lucky to have such a supportive lot of ladies.

As to the smacking issue - after counselling a few years ago, i came to realise that my mum actually abused me as a child (I'll spare you details but one incident that sticks is when we were in a restaurant when I was about 6 or 7 and obviously playing up and so she ground her stiletto heel into the top of my bare foot to shut me up - & I felt it was my fault).
Anyway, the point is, i am never ever ever going to smack C but that doesn't mean I've been tempted - dear lord I love her more than I can find words for, but just sometimes when she's clingy or crying for no reason or etc etc - you know what I mean. It helps me to remember why she's doing it - it's not to be bad or because she wants to wind me up.

So feeling like you want/need to smack is very understandable - but as starlight said, it's what you do about it and as always, no one will judge you here

bec I'm a saddo too...I record ITT every night and watch it when the dcs are in bed!

I've spent the last two days thinking about smacking as i've got rather too involved in a discussion about it on MN. The general consensus on the thread is that smacking in anger/hitting out/lashing with a belt/stilletto in foot ( IMO) is all wrong and abuses your child, and teaches them if they're frustrated then its ok to hit out.

Where people have disagreed with me, is that we smack as a punishment for willfull disobedience. Its never in anger (there are times I've been oh so very angry and not smacked because I know I would be doing it to release my anger which is very wrong), its preceeded by a warning and opportunity to change behaviour. Restoration of relationship and change of behaviour pattern are key.

I fully appreciate that this might not be everyone's way, but that's what DH and I have decided to do and we've really seen the benefits with dd and intend to do the same with ds when the time comes. It breaks my heart to smack them, but we believe that certain actions have consequences.

One thing the DH picked up on from the smacking thread was the number of people who distract their dcs from bad behaviour with bribery. What on earth is that teaching? Kids will grow up expecting that they can always get their own way, the naughtier they get the greater the liklihood of reward, and the more they're likely to kick off as older children when they realise the world doesn't revolve around them.

Sorry, rant over, should have put a disclaimer at the start!

DH has just come home from a friends house, they discussed smacking too (hot topic) and apparantly the bloke used to get chinese burns off his mum!

carrie hurray!

debi dare I ask how the house sale / purchase is going?

We went to a Halloween party at tea-time, but it was too scary for DS. DD was happily playing with balloons (and oblivious to the halloween things) but the pumpkins scared DS so we didn't stay for very long. He's a delicate little thing sometimes.

I have entertaining news about XP. I saw his sister yesterday and he is going out with a classy young lady who had 3 kids (who her parents practically look after), her XH has moved his pregnant girlfriend into the family home and she is almost living with my XP in his brothers house. She doesn't work and has annoyed XP's brother by just watching TV all day and running out the hot water. It's like something off Jeremy Kyle . Glad I'm not involved and he won't be seeing the children for a while, if his new GF isn't bothered with her own DC's I'm sure I don't want her near my dc's. Not that I'm judgy or anything .

IMO I know what you mean about it being nice that we can actually have proper discussions on this thread without it turning into a argument .

carrie that hurray was meant about your house exchange. Not a hyper excited comment about the smacking discussion .

Evening! Haven't been on for yeeeeeaaaaars. T has got some awful pox type rash (no one has any idea what) and has been really poorly for most of the week. Think he started to get better, but now has 2 teeth coming through too

Other than that, life is pretty good.

Am beginning to realise that we have no toddler strategy, iykwim. T is getting to the stage where I need to get him to not do things (like hit me when I carry him - he is almost in age 2-3 year clothes and STRONG), and I haven't really got a clue what to do for the best for the long term. Anyone got any good books to suggest? At least with little babies you know there's no motive behind anything!

hopefully I like Toddler Taming. It covers most of the silly / naughty things that toddlers usually do. If anything the author does press home the fact that all toddlers are little pickles in their own way and it is usually just a phase.

I've never smacked DD1 (6) and was surprised that friends of mine had (albeit a tap on the hand). I have to say by 6 I've been tempted but as Carrie said in anger is the worst time.

I've never even considered that you could smack a baby though ...

Personally I can't see what solution violence is, but I can see that if used in a controlled way it's a quick reaction to a situation.

Yes, I like Toddler Taming too. Dont agree with him on the smacking/hitting issue though!

He also has another book - "Beyond Toddlerdom" for children from 5-12 for those of you like me with older children too - it covers stuff like death, divorce, school issues etc.

...oh, and the reason this thread doesnt degenerate into horridness when we tackle difficult issues like smacking/hitting is because we are all respectful of others points of view, even if we dont agree.

As Voltaire said..."I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ...or something like that!!

The Social Toddler is by no means a prescriptive book. It does help you to understand the toddler's world view which makes you more likely to find solutions that are win-win for you and your toddler imo.

I found it made me observe toddler behaviour from a more informed POV. That is not to say you don't make mistakes but I found I was better equipped to reflect on why things went wrong a formulate a different response for 'the next time'.

In all though I'd say that parenting with a toddler involves distraction, distraction, distraction and praise, praise, praise.

Anyone with older toddlers/children agree with me that 3 year olds are harder work than 2 year olds?

I've got the mn toddler book and it's quite good. Makes you realise everything they get up to is normal and has a few helpful tips.

debi Yes, 3 yr olds are much more, um, challenging that 2 yr olds. This evening DS threw several books, a wet nappy, handle of his toy cart and a dolly at me - I think it was triggered by me asking him to start brushing his teeth and escalated by DD getting medicine but he didn't need it . I can handle the back chat (me: "DS please will you put your clothes in the wash bin". DS "NOOOOOOOOOO" ), but the throwing, and sometimes hitting me, is bloody hard work.

We had a nice Halloween. DD wore some pumpkin deeley-boppers and DS wore his skeleton top and helped me carve a pumpkin. And I went to the gym while my mum & stepdad took them to the park, yay!

You asked him to brush his teeth? How unreasonable of you

Does anyone know anyone who votes for Craig in Strictly? Seriously wrong result tonight...

So glad halloween is over for another year. Dd kept asking who was at the door and saying we should go and open it!

In the space of less than a month ds has gone from being stationary to crawling, pulling up to standing, standing unaided, walking with a push along trolley. If he walks unaided before Tuesday he'll have done the whole lot in under a month. Geeky mum fact!

dd2 currently sitting at the top of the steps crying her heart out because she wants the plastic nappy sack I just put 2 dirty nappies in. No, a clean one with 2 toys won't do. It has to be the one iwth the poopy nappy.

aww. she just came in the computer room with the replacement.

Yes I use stinky nappy sacks. Dh worries about having poo smells in the bin. he is anal about poo.