April 2009 - Chapter 3 - Let us round up the stragglers

[PuzzleRocks]

Ta da.

Hello! Darn it, missed a visit from our favourite gatecrasher again - NorthernLurker, if you're still out there, big wave to you too! How's DD?

Have been mad busy this week getting some work done for DP and having some friends to stay from Finland - their 3yo and DS1 shared a bedroom which meant that of course not much sleep was had. Was soooooo lovely to see them though, we last saw them last summer when we went over there and I was about 8 wks pregnant with Orbit, so they were chuffed to bits to meet him.

But now work is done, friends have moved on, it's the weekend and I've had a glass of wine

Schulte we had a rubbish first day with potty training, try again tomorrow and if you're getting nowhere then maybe give it a rest. With DS1 when it happened it suddenly happened all at once, and he's been dry at night as well as accident free in the day almost completely ever since. Hope you have wipe clean floors!

mrsgboring I'm at all the grief you're getting about weight and diet etc. Remember you're a brilliant mum, it is not something you're doing wrong, all babies are different and yours are not meant to be big chubsters, that's just one of those things. Sending lots of hugs and large glasses of wine.

Speaking of weight though, one of DP's colleagues recently had a daughter - weighed 6.5kg at birth Yes, I do mean kg! That's only slightly less than Orbit weighs now! I might have to have a lie down in a darkened room just thinking about it.

Bicnod sorry Oscar is still poorly, hope he feels better soon

On babies in rooms - DS1 was in with us until about 9 months, not sure how long Orbit will stay. He's a noisy sleeper!

Puzzle we love your organised ways

Welcome JJ, glad you're here, come on in the water's lovely!

Springy, lovely to see you back on the thread, hope you feel Springy again soon.

So we had a friend of DS1's over for the afternoon, two three year olds in one house with me and Orbit, yikes. I think every single toy in the whole house was played with and then left somewhere on the floor, and when friend went home it was discovered that at some stage they had swapped pants . Is that the sign of a good play date, when you go home in your friend's pants?

Juwesm, if any of us is going to drug their baby it should be you, let's face it at least you know what you're doing

Hum, can't catch up any more as dinner is ready, but Tigga I love your ever changing name

xxxx

Springy, I can't get immune to rubella. I have had four jabs. This is why it is so important people get their kids vaccinated - if they don't, they are more likely to harbour the disease and it could harm other members of the community as well as unborn children.

Brett, I think you can even get a jab to help lactation start again.

Juwes, you start timing from the beginning of the feed. It sounds like Hugo is rather inefficient as a feeder - my DS1 was like that. You are right about the advice to keep them in your room until 6 months though - I just decided not to as Felix is only the other side of the (thin) wall and seemed developmentally mature enough to cope on his own - he's perfectly happy in there and cheerfully has the odd daytime nap in the cot as well. I only have to change his nappy in there and he is craning to see his little animal mobile and gurgling away. It just feels right to have him in there.

DD was in my room for two years, DS1 for nine months, and DS2 moved in with his brother and 4.5 months, by the way. I've co-slept quite a lot in the past.

Tigga, when my SIL had her kids my MIL was alive and able bodied and did an enormous amount for them - gave them weekends off, organised the kids' birthday parties and so on. My SIL is quite a bit older than me, but is a lady of comparative leisure, and has a lot of time on her hands, and lives an hour away. How often do we get help? Once a year they have the DSs for an afternoon while we go off to buy their Xmas presents, but we have to drive over there to avail of this. Last year I couldn't travel so far because of the SPD so they just cancelled, and didn't come over to us instead or anything like that.

While I am ranting in sympathy I must point out her truly dire gift giving skills. Once I had spent an entire week of my hols cleaning and scrubbing everyone else's disgusting dirt off a shared cottage we have, muttering under my breath the whole time, and for Xmas that year she gave me the book 'How clean is you house' and a pair of rubber gloves. Really.

Bleu, you can get some Johnson and Johnson spray on stuff to detangle fine kiddie hair, but if that doesn't work, you can simply cut them out. Regarding the cat, if she's been OK up until now I am sure she will be fine. We fret too much about certain kinds of hygiene. This time next year she'll be crawling and eating the food out the cat bowl!

Surprise, my mum came to stay last week and helped a little bit but I have to say not a great deal, and at one point she said to Felix, "I am going to have to go back home for a rest, and this was supposed to be my holiday!" Now I had been thinking she was supposed to be helping me to give me a break. Silly Boff.

Juwes, being a pharmacist I think you could probably dose your offspring properly as necessary with the ol' Piriton. Haven't done it myself, except once giving DS1 a double dose by accident when he was about 2, and he was conked out in 10 minutes and we had a blissful break from his ADD. Happy days!

JJ I feel we have bonded a bit now after all the details!

Puzzle, my doula mentioned the elimination thing. I am actually quite tempted! But I agree it sounds a little bonkers!!

WFH LOL at pants!!!

MrsG - Big ((((((((hugs)))))))))) for the weight thing. I know you've been through it once before already, so there's nothing I can say that you don't already know! If you like, we can play 'Who has the worst HV', or some such similar game.

Gestational diabetes is not your fault. If it were caused purely by eating crap when pregnant, I think 95% of us would have it! Grrrr at the food lecture. I get questioned on my diet each time, and I want to say to them 1) Do I look undernourished? 2) There is evidence that a poor diet has little effect on quality/ quantity of milk. Your body will favour milk production and leach nutrients from you to make milk.

"E is really very small. Both my babies have fed all the time, never slept or allowed me to put them down and headed for the bottom of the growth charts fast. Maybe that's the way they are but how would I ever know it wasn't just that I am completely shit at this?" - substitute an H for E and that is us exactly (oh, apart from not having two ) . If there are two of us in this small group with LOs with that same growth pattern, how 'abnormal' can it be? Okay, it's not a massive sample size, but anecdotal evidence has its value

Re: ebm - have you tried breast shells for catching leaks? (Sure you have prob tried everything, but thought I'd mention it anyway!)

Do they use shorter needles for his jabs? I was all set to ask about needle size when we went in for the first jabs, but as soon as we sat down the nurse said 'We're going to need a bigger boat smaller needles'. Have also discovered a bit of a lump on his leg today where he had the Men C jab last week

Double grrrrrr at "try to put weight on him for next time". What do they think, you've been deliberately underfeeding him because you prefer the skinny look in a baby? These people don't think, do they?

right, am going to attempt to catch up AGAIN! E asleep, DS1, DS2 and DSS are lying on the beds watching a film and DH has fallen asleep somewhere, so peace....!!

Oh Juw, while you're there (if you're there!), my hayfever is driving me totally crazy, is it really true I can't take an anti-histamine? Not even a spoon of Piriton?

Boff - he is an inefficient feeder. I sometimes think he is getting better, as he more frequently does the serious gulping where he sounds like a grown man chugging down a bottle of beer! But over the last week the Naughty Hands (pulling and pushing boob whilst feeding until nipple pops out!) are getting worse, and now we are developing Naughty Leg (one leg waves around madly, like a dog having his leg tickled!). This means that feeding is getting to feel like a battle of wills!

Surprise, you can take Piriton while bf. I had to have it after the nasty allergic reaction incident I had.

Surprise - cetirizine or loratidine should be fine. Theoretical risk of affecting milk supply, but unlikely to be a problem in practice. Stuff fron BfN here

Juwes, my sympathies. It was genuinely fiddly feeding DS1. His ADD was evident from the moment of birth - he spent his whole time looking around at the world rather than doing what babies are normally supposed to do!!

oh thank you so much - have been suffering for weeks now! Went into Lloyds Chemist and spoke to Pharmacist in May and he said 'you'll just have to suffer this year!'.

Can't believe it, was catching up and then somehow managed to refresh page and lost everything! Will try again!

BB - ouch for the sunburnt ankles! And how scary about K stopping breathing - I would have panicked too. DS2 choked when he was small and I panicked and practically threw him at DH. I like to think I would have coped if on my own though. I think a Paediatric first aid course as Boff mentioned would be a good thing for me too

Bleu - Meg is SO clever knowing to roll over to other side! regarding the pooing, HV told me that with BF babies, anything from after every feed to once a week is normal! E goes once every other day usually. My DH has same job as yours, is working at the local council now. Don't feeld like a bad mummy putting Meg in her room when you did, I always think we should just do what is right for us.

schulte - when I first tried potty training DS2 he managed about 5% in of wees and poos in his potty! i decided it was too early and gave up until he was a few months older. This time he took to it without a problem. How old is DD1?

Juw - I think you just have to do what you feel is best for H. I would be reluctant to stop BF too. Us mums always get it apparently wrong don't we! After watching me feeding E for half an hour, one friend told me I should 'change breasts every 5 mins' and after telling a friend E sleeps 11 hours at night she replied 'oh you ought to get up and use your pump then to maintain a good supply'. Neither of these shall I be doing!

Bronze how is DD? Hope it's not swineflu!

springy - hope things get better on the AD's. Go easy on yourself, it's hard being a first-time mum, we have all been there and we all understand you (big hugs). Least you're getting help - I wish I had after DS1 but I left it too late - until my marriage split up. And I stayed depressed until I met my now DH and had DS2. Well done you for getting it sorted

Brett I managed to 'relactate' with DS2. My neighbour was still feeding her DS and I suddenly realised I wished I was. I hadn't for about 2 months (he was 6 months by this time), so I got the pump out and managed to feed him. he was just on solids at this point so didn't need too much but it was nice to go back to doing it at sleep times etc.

Kalik Is it too late for an ice-cream now? Don't give Vitamin D drops here. Anyone else?

Bicnod - DH gets me mad with all the banging around he does too. He moans that DS's take ages to get to sleep and mess around etc, but then he's banging around in the bathroom, putting telly on loud, leaving lights on everywhere, laughing loudly at telly, drives me mad!! Hope Oscar feels better soon.

JJ - welcome, glad you have found us! Look forward to getting to know you

Mrs G at them saying you should try and put more weight on E. How on earth are you supposed to do that??!! Do they think you are purposely keeping him slim? Gosh, I can't believe they said that! You're a brilliant mum, don't let them get you down (hugs)

WFH 6+ kg, ouch ouch ouch (eyes watering emoticon!). Changing pants is always a sign of a good play date!

Tell me this ladies .... is the third set of injections really 3 jabs? i don't think I will cope E looked at me with such sad eyes a downturned bottom lip after her first injection that I nearly ran out before they could do the second one She has her second lot in a couple of weeks

In terms of relactation, I tried it when she was 6 weeks old. She ended up very unsettled and I ended up in agony with no noticeable increase in milk supply. Tbh I really think that she is perfectly happy with the way that she is fed, it is me that has the problem. It is only an element of my pnd anyway, in a large folder that is marked 'failure'. I think that the healthiest thing for all concerned is for me to come to terms with this.

Surprise, Hannah had her second jabs yesterday and was definitely less upset than with the first ones. She knew what was coming so wasn't as shocked as the first time.

triple at try to put some weight on him I mean ffs.

Boffin, I frequently wonder about ADD in mine

6KG??? It's got to be an urban myth surely?

I know! I keep waiting for the text that says 'ooops, we meant lbs' but no, apparently it is kg. And he says she's a whopper in the text, so it can't be lbs, as 6lbs doesn't really qualify as a whopper, does it?

Shall have to inspect this baby personally to confirm the truth of it

I have got a cake in the oven!! At 7.30am!! What is that all about?

However, I have also this morning:

• Nearly made porridge with 3 cups oats and 1 cup water instead of the other way round

• Served weetabix to DH in large mixing bowl instead of cereal bowl
• Turned beater on stand mixer whilst covered in mix and still raised out of bowl, nearly covering all and sundry in cake mix
• Made glass of squash, and then immediately put it under tap to fill up with water, despite already being full.

Think today may be a strange one.

You sound like me Juwesm - the other day I drained the carrots and pasta for DS1's tea, and drained the water into his bowl instead of the sink. Nearly went to throw away the food, but just stopped myself in time! Yum, nice bowl of hot water for your tea, DS1?

So here's a question - what do people think about letting children watch TV? DS1 watches about an hour or so of Cbeebies a day - we don't let him watch any other channel (refuse to have him watch toy adverts, for a start!) but he does watch about an hour - the bedtime hour on most weekdays when I'm putting Orbit to bed, and he has it on for an hour on weekend mornings so we can potter around or have a lie in. He has watched more than this - after we lost baby number two, for example, we weren't coping very well, and if he's ill he gets to watch TV on the sofa.

Is that too much? Is TV intrinsically bad, or does it depend what channel they watch? DS1 is quite a lazy child, and he doesn't play as actively as other 3yos I know (friend yesterday trashed the house in three seconds flat - DS1 tends to be more careful and cautious in his play, but also tends not to do such imaginative, creative play)

I don't think this is as a result of TV, but I doubt it helps.

Any thoughts?

I think that nowadays there is a lot of worry about the intrinsic evilness thing, but I think it's probably only so if all they do is watch TV/play PS etc. As long as DCs do loads of outdoor stuff and non-TV indoor stuff, surely is fine? Plus, is edyookayshunul!

H loves the telly! If he's in a tizzy, turn him to face the TV and he's suddenly fine

Just a quickie, as juggling lunch with reading.

Had Millie weighed this am - 10lb5oz - finally putting on the elusive oz per day. Hurrah

So MrsG I know how you feel with the weightgain HV pressure thing, nurses not v helpful with practical info on HOW to increase weight. Dunno if it'll work for you, but just for a week, I've been setting an alarm to feed Millie every 3 hours on the dot, even at night, otherwise she just doesn't tell me when she's hungry. silly little darling doesn't understand how much we worry about her. It obviously worked.

WhatFreshHell - TV is a curse and blessing isn't it? If it's age appropriate and not peppered with adverts, I don't see the harm, as long as we don't use it as a babysitter without parental commentary on what she's watching. Though right now, Millie's loving the cricket, and I can't comment on what I don't understand

JJ Hooray for weight gain, that is brill . It's so hard, at least you have found something that works for you.

The TV. Now here is a bad mummy question - how old do you think a baby has to be to start being affected by the Jeremy Kyle show? Hannah worryingly looks like she's watching it . I think the issue is that when we were kids the children's programmes were on for an hour a day whereas now you could watch them round the clock. It's just a question of balance I think, because kids do learn things from the telly however much the 'wholesome' types shudder.

Good morning

I'm looking forward to a nice lazy weekend. This will be the first in ages that we haven't got loads to do.

Bicnod - I do hope Oscar is feeling better today.

MrsG - How awful of them to make you feel like that. People can be so bloody ignorant and insensitive. At least once he has the third set, you wont have to see them again for many months.
And FGS of course you are not "completely shit". I really loathe those bloody red books, they seem to make so many people unhappy. Please, please, please do not let it get you down.

WFH - Don't you swap pants with your girlfriends when they visit? I know I do. Especially if they are wearing something cool like Spiderman pants.
Re tv: Ellen never watches tv but she does have about 15 dvds and she likes to have them on if we are home but never to the exclusion of playing. She has an amazing vocabulary for her age and a small part of that is thanks to Jim Henson. I do think it's the quality of programming and time spent watching that matters.
Actually, she does watch tv, she loves Formula 1!

D'oh! Posted on the wrong damned thread! I was wondering if I could rejoin? Hope you are all ok xx

Hi Electra, welcome back. How are you and Isabella?

Would have caught up with everyone but am having problems reading due to being so tired. Did catch ju are you sure you aren't me???

Waves to electra.

X-post time I would have made something fresh up but frankly am too tired

I have become Judgey McJudge/Grumpy Old Woman today it seems. Nice girl (she looked 12!) washing my hair tells me her friend had a baby just turned 3 months who was SO hungry they were feeding it baby yoghurt and porridge. In my best disapproving voice I blurt out 'At 3 months!!!' You could hear the exclamation marks. I then bit my tongue to stop myself from saying anymore.

Loving the new short short hair

Not enjoying wanting to walk up to children who have had children to tell them not to have a cig in their hand whilst bottle feeding their child. And yes they bloody well had Greggs sausage rolls every last one of them (including food eating children)

GoingToBeTheNewJudgeJudyTiggaxx

Hey Electra - good to have you back. How have you and the girls been?

Well we have just got back from a lovely meal out with my Mum. I came over all mumsnetty when I asked for juice for Ellen and the waitress told me they had fruit shoots.
"Goodness me no!" I cried. And proceeded to order my 2 year old a massive slab of chocolate fudge brownie.

Lol at Puzzle.

Have been thinking about judging and cross referencing that with Zen and the Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance (you have to read something at 0200 whilst smalls have their eyes closed nomming away). Robert Pirsig is right we make value judgements all the time on what is and isn't Quality, those judgements apply to each of us on a personal basis. Or rather Quality for each individual tells us what judgements to make. As long as you don't try to impose the judgements on others judge away

I shall carry on making my judgements and keeping them to myself, I shall no longer feel guilty for them!

ComingOverAllZenTiggaxx

Evening ladies - thanks for asking after Oscar - he's loads better today - I'm so relieved... he actually slept and smiled and laughed lots today, I've got my little boy back - it was a horrible week last week, he was clearly in pain and really really unsettled. He wouldn't settle for DH at all so it was constant mummy... my god I am soooooo tired.

Laptop still dead but staying down with my mum this week so use of her pooter - hurrah!

I didn't realise quite how much of a support I find this thread until I drowned the laptop - I felt really cut off over the past few days I'm another one who lives away from family so not much day to day support...

Anyway, I'm back but I'm knackered so going to go and get some sleep - will attempt a mammoth catch up tomorrow.

Very excited about stalkbook facebook too tired to do much delving into photos tonight but intend to do so tomorrow, hurrah

I haven't read the thread so please forgive me if I've missed anything big... hugs to you all x x x

Hi everyone, we're good thanks but I'm a bit worried because Isabella isn't swiping stuff yet and I'm sure dd2 did this at 6 weeks...