Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

Oh PMK if you can you should. We went the year Lance won for the 5th time in a row and Baden won the green Jersey. I think it was 2003 it was brilliant we had a great spot on the Champs Elesse(sp). They go around like 6 times so even though they fly past you get to see them loads and it's a brilliant atmosphere as so many different countries involved. They do a big procession afterwards and we called Baden over when his team went past and gave him our Aussie flag and Robbie McEwam helped him tie it around his shoulders and he wore it for the whole procession. It's really good fun. Would love to go but already have camp bestival tickets for same weekend. Did you go to the prologue and Grande Depart when it was in London? Sorry this probably isn't exciting at all for you and I probably seem a bit sad but I just love love love the Tour.

Sorry cross posted again, daisy good idea to sit down and talk but to make sure it doesn't end up in a row, maybe write down what you want to say and be clear about how you think things could be done. Also I can recommend the no cry discipline solution as a help to address some begaviours. Also we were talking about the book 'how to talk to you children' and sometimes a well timed 'X what's wrong, are you cranky/sad.' can help as well as chill out time. DS1 has a place he has chosen to go, when things are getting tense or I feel one of us is going explode I just say 'is it time to go to the chill out room' (read get the @£&" out of my sight) and off he goes. Sometimes he even takes himself there.

Don't worry Veggie I love the Tour. We went on holiday to Kent years ago when it started down there. It would have been 1994 or something.

Dad has just left to go home. I'm a bit , I hate it when he goes home. DS1 is wandering round looking for Grandad

urgh what a weekend. DD has chickenpox which has not mixed well with the hot nights. DP and DS have the dreaded man flu and I've had no sleep for 3 days. Glad to come to work today for some peace and quiet leaving DP with the gruesome twosome little cherubs. Have just been to buy my lunch and got caught in a downpour so am soaked to the skin. Might have to go and stand under the handdryers in the loos to try and dry out.

Am really behind with who has done what but congratulations to those who had christenings (and the energy to make scrummy looking cakes) and sympathy to those who are having a difficult patch with children.

Daisy not sure of the ins and outs of your redundancy situation. Are you still on Mat Leave? If you are there are 2 issues that your employer should be wary of. First to make sure you are included in all the consultation- sounds like they have messed that up already. Second is that there is a loophole that affects those on Mat leave. One of the key points about a fair dismissal is that redundancy should be a last resort and they should try to find suitable alternative work for anyone affected. If there are a number of people then they will have to look at interviews etc to see who is the best person for the job. Because of the way the Mat Laws are worded any woman on Mat Leave is entitled to return to a suitable alternative job, if there is one available, without having to compete for it. Failure to do this means that your dismissal is automatically unfair. It doesn't matter if you were not the best qualified just that the job was suitable for you.
So if your job is made redundant and you see an alternative, let them know. They can argue that it isn't suitable for you in which case you would have to make a claim to an Employment Tribunal. Have simplified it a little so if you need more info give me a shout.

Right lunch time over, best get back to work.

Morning All

Just a quickie as I wanted to make sympathetic noises to Daisy. My DD1 is exactly the same age - 3 in August. Its a really hard age and I hear myself shouting so much more than I ever thought I would. It is especially hard when you are tired, before Mrs Sleep sorted us out I think DD1 was incurring a lot of the wrath that was actually due to my broken nights. I bought the "How to talk..." book after hearing about it here and it is magnificent. In two short weeks our relationship is much improved as I have put the strategies into action. I highly recommend it. I do hope things improve for you soon. And please remember you are NOT a crap mummy.

Glad you had a nice trip to Paris PMK. It sounded idyllic .

Veggie I think some of the online bookkeeping courses are quite good. I have a firned who has just set-up her own cake making business and used an online course to learn the administrative side - she thought it was great. Shall I ask her which one?

As soon as the girls wake-up we are off to Horsham and apparently this makes me a psychopath. I am going to view a house that is for sale despite the fact that I never intend to live in Horsham and I could not afford it anyway. It is a house my grandparents built in the 30s and then raised my Dad in. My Dad's diaries are full of memories of it. I am intrigued to see it because I have never met any of them and I feel it might help me picture them better (my grandparents died before I was born and my Dad died when I was a baby) . DH thinks I am a nutter, I just hope the agents don't guess .

Posting and running...off to Ireland for the week for hols/friend's wedding. Just in time to ruin all of the great sleep progress we've been making!

Back for a couple of days and then off to Canada until September.

But will check in with the coven when we're back from Ireland next week.

Cheers lovelies!

Have just ordered the how to talk book so fingers crossed my days of saying 'for pete's sake' () at DS are numbered

Arti I think that's really lovely that you're going to see the house. And not at all psychopathic. Unless you were intending to bump off a few people on the journey Or have a loathing of estate agents. How lovely that you have your Dad's diaries to help you to know him.

Spiggy sympathies on your weekend. You are goldmine on employment law. We are very lucky to have you

Pmk your trip sounds lovely. Apart from the London transport bits anyway. Am getting really excited about going to France now, especially as I have decided not to bother with a bikini and just buy a nice costume so I don't have to worry about stomach.

Enjoy Ireland Mom.

Veggie we saw the Tour when it was in London - really great. And actually managed to catch a stage in France later that year. Was much more fun than I imagined.

Right am supposed to be working. Thinking of maybe turning off the broadband when I work so I can't keep getting distracted. I have no will power...probably not enough to do that either.

Hope you enjoyed the zoo spot and pingu. Have just become a member so maybe next time? DS is a big fan.

Oh Arti just had to post after your post (still catching up) I think you should tell the agents who you are they would love to know the history of it people love knowing about the place they are thinking of buying. I think it's a brilliant idea. My Nan lived in a house in Balmain (Oz) nothing special, they didn't build it but she spent much of her childhood and I would love to see it esp from the inside.

Also the online book keeping course your friend did would be great, I would be really grateful if you could give me the name.

spiggy thanks for that. It is a great help. My 'stand-in' manager rang me this afternoon, and basically filled me in on what has been happening. My form has yet to be sent off as they said they couldn't get hold of me. Not sure if they tried as no answer machine message on either landline or mobile! They are hoping to redeploy if possible....so I'll see what happens. But as I was planning to reduce my hours from 3 days to 2, I have told the I don't want to do this if it will result in a reduction in my redundancy pay. To be fair the redundancy package is very good as I have been there 10 years. I just wanted to have all the facts of the situation and now I know a bit more I can have a think of what is best for me and so on.

arti Who is that book by? I really need to get it. She has been better this afternoon. But DH has just got home and she changes totally! We are having a chat when the lo's in bed

Mom Have a lovely time

Lal broadband is easy enough to turn back on again. So you may think you will save yourself but then curiosity will get the better of you and you'll just turn it back on.

I just have to say this postman pat is a bloody idiot. Can't anyone in that stupid town see that, am I the only one. He messes things up royally, constantly, then when he manages to sort the mess HE created out, everyone praises him as a hero. What is that about?! What sort of message does that send to our children????? Be a bumbling fool and we'll praise you for fixing the mess you caused. So therefore you have barely been able to do your job, cost the taxpayer a fortune (in one case he had to scamble the SDS helicopter to rescue a bunch of balloons) and everyone treats you like some sort of super human!!! they even gave him an award! Blummin heck!!!

Right I feel better now, I clearly need to find gainful employment again one day.

veggie

You need to get out more my love! Your turning into me.....don't get me started on Lazy Town - ITS JUST WRONG!!!

Daisy it's by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish just type in How to talk on Amazon there is a whole series of them. The one I have is the 'how to talk so kids will listen & listen so kids will talk.'. There is another called 'how to talk so kids will learn' that looks good.

Daisy I hate when people say they have tried to contact you when they clearly haven't. I had a lady i contactef about a professional issue with one of my patients, she was a social worker and she should have contacted me the week before. When I said u had waited for her call she ranting about how she had constantly been trying to get in touch with me but I hadn't returned her calls. We had a very robust answering and message leaving system so I found it hard to believe. I settled her down and we got on with the issue at hand. But then I had to go as an emergency came up so I asked her to call me back, she said 'yes, no problem what is your number?' I pointed out that as she had been already 'trying' to contact me the number she had supposedly used. She mumbled something about losing the number as it was on a piece of paper. I was so annoyed as she had really has a go at me, but also a bit smug that I had caught her out.

Spiggy will know better but the redundancy should be based on your hours before maternity leave not your proposed hours.

A little weird but nice bum. Our parent friends call DH Sporticus because he randomly starts doing exercises at weird times. Like suddenly doing chin ups on the roof bar holder things on the tube. That pink haired girls drives me mad though, and don't even get me started on Mr Tumble and tikkabilla, what is going on between those two.

no time to catch up properly but wanted to say:

arti: I htink that's a great idea about the hosue, I would be itching to see it too. How To Talk is good, I've been using it with DS1 and it is making a difference.

Daisy: it's such a tough age, isn't it? DS1 is 3 in October and I hope to God things don't get any worse!

My rant: DS1 is now regressing big time on the toilet training: we think it might be that Max is now 6 months and grabbing his toys and more attention. He seems to have the ability to wet himself half a dozen times a day despite frequent trips to the toilet. Am at end of tether and seriously considering putting him back in pull-ups: the laundry is insane. The only thing I can think that would work is ignoring the behaviour, but I can hardly let him wander about pissing himself all day. Grrrrr.

And Veggie the Perine household is in full agreement. DH and I have oft wondered why Pat hasn't got the sack by now

Hi - have no time to catch up agin, but just wanted to say, Veggie we agree totally with your Postman Pat. DH thought it was really funny as he cant watch it himself for the same reason as he gets really annoyed

Effie, it makes me sad when I hear of other lovely mums going through what I did with DS1 and TT. I'm always so happy when I hear success stories. First I will say, one day he will use the toilet for all his wee wees and poo poos, it may not seem it now but he will. Secondly, use pull ups, they are a god send. I used to be so so against them as I thought they made it take longer to TT but after 2 months of little packages and puddles on ours and good friends floors I 'gave up' and started using them and they were great. He was down to having only one accident a week within a few weeks of starting them instead of one a day. They still feel they are wet and know they have pooed just you don't have the stress of having to ask them constantly and watching them to try to catch when they might poo. I also found some stickers online that you put on the bottom of the potty, it is black but when the wee goes on them a star appears. I do really really know what you are going through, the stress of senior management in the NHS was nothing compared to toilet training DS1. Just writing this is making my neck and shoulder muscles tense. Please come on a talk about it though as I will empathize with you.

good evening
Veggie lol at the Postman Pat issues! I have to admit that some of the conversations on this thread go over my head - various authors/books/topics that I'm completely ignorant about - but this one is about my level! I have similar frustrations with Fireman Sam - just how clumsy and thoughtless are the residents of Ponty whatever?! A fire everyday?!! you'd think they'd learn
Poor dd1 had to go to the gp earlier because her asthma is causing trouble again - poor thing has to take her inhaler every 2-3 hours this week and have more steroids... Made me think of you lal - how has your asthma been? Is it worse in the hayfever season? Lucy seems to really struggle in summer and winter - spring and autumn are not bad!
I haven't a clue what's going on with Phoebe today. She's not had much interest in the boob - even went to bed at 7 with no feed. Much as I tried she just wouldn't go for it, but she did go to sleep, but she's bound to wake up hungry very soon. The nights are starting to get to me now - I'm going through a negative phase with it - I really wonder how I'm ever going to get her to sleep more than 3 hours. I've been trying to leave her to cry a bit and sometimes she falls asleep within minutes, but other times she screams and I really can't let her go on so I give in after about 6 minutes and feed her, which teaches her nothing about how to sleep. I'm so frustrated with myself for not being able to leave her a bit longer but it's like it actually hurts to hear her so upset and I sit in my room in tears forcing myself not to go to her. I worry that she'll feel abandoned and lose trust in me if I don't respond to her cries - is this rational or not? That's a serious question because one of the things I have to watch myself with (after PND) is that I can keep my thoughts in check and identify rational/ irrational thoughts but I really don't know with this. Does that make sense? Any words of wisdom? Is this normal or am I losing it again?
Also if she's decided to go off the boob then she won't get any fluid because she still won't take beaker or bottle either. What if she's still off the boob tomorrow and then my supply goes and then she can't drink anything?
I'm worrying about returning to work - new job or old - because she needs to drink and can't. I think I might be having a wobble. bit tearful tonight. sorry girls

Trace - well, I don't know what others will say but I think it's normal to fret about not going to them if they are crying. It's a jolly good job my DD doesn't cry too much because I can't stand to let her cry for a second. It's heartrending. Furthermore, you have had broken nights for ages now and anyone who can withstand months of that is frankly bionic. I am not being flippant, I really do mean it! Someone who knows more about bf than me (well, it wouldn't be possible to know less!) will come on and advise you but is there any way you can stimulate your supply when she is not drinking? Sympathies also on the bottle and beaker refusenik - obviously DD has always had a bottle but will not have a beaker or a sippy or anything. And when they won't, they won't. I have been told to try every day and I must go back to that. I bet Phoebe will be back on track tomorrow and it is just one of those mysterious blips. Hope you get some sleep.

Arti, I hope your trip to Horsham was good. I thought it sounded like an utterly lovely idea. Hope you managed to hold it together - I think I'd have ended up a blubbing fool!

Lal - I am with you on the distraction front...

I made lentil daal tonight (I am a hopeless cook so I was pleased with myself, it was nice) but best of all, I have a meeting on Thursday afternoon to do with some of my own projects (nothing to do with my day job) and I am pleased as punch about that even if it comes to nothing, as most of these things do.

Veggie, I think you're being a bit rough on Pat But why is his cat called Jess? Jess is a person's name. But Lazy Town...it gives me the creeps...

Sweet dreams dear girls.

Ooh yes, don;t get me started on Asbo Norman and his negligent mother (in real life she'd have been fined for wasting the fire service's time, I'm sure).

Veggie: thank you for those kind words . Everyone else seems to be able to do this in a matter of days and we're going backwards instead... I think pull-ups will help me relax about it all, esp when we're out and about. I can always put him in pants at home and stick him in the garden. I'd forgotten that pull-ups still helped them to tell they were wet, I was worrying he'd just go back to weeing all the time (mind you, that's what he's doing at the moment!). He woke up at 4 this morning and wanted to come into bed with us, which he hasn't done for months, so I think he's generally unsettled and unhappy .

Good luck for your meeting LadyT

Trace: we're having varying nights too, night before last DS2 went from 11:30 till nearly 5 , last night he was up most of the evening then woke several times. I would say that P is much better than she used to be, so you're going in the right direction, although slower than you'd like, obviously. Can your DH take over some of the nights, esp once he's finished at school?

Morning,

I am really really glad I'm not the only person that has a problem with Fireman Sam!! Surely by now social services would have been informed about Norman.

Our washing machine has broken. It is going to cost up to £175 to fix it

Hope you are all ok!

THanks for all the kind words about my return to work. Twas fine, had a nice lunch and did very little, though am no further forward re the redundancy thing. Ah me, we'll have to see.

Very quickly as DH already left, DD1 in front of the TV already and M on the bed....

Effie - sympathies on the potty. You will get there. Veggie's words are very wise. It sounds grim, but it really helped us to have a sit on potty (the big throne type) and to let DD1 sit on it in front of the TV, just to get used to having the feeling of being on the loo. Anything produced was greeted with great praise, stickers, etc etc. I didnt use pull ups but can see how they might take some of the stress away. Can you persuade him just to sit on the potty without his nappy in front of a TV programme and just get used to it for half an hour? Really helped DD1 feel more comfortable. Big love, darling, it's horrid when they are so unsettled.

Trace - LadyT speaks the truth, of course. Anyohe who has had so much sleep deprivation would be feeling out of kilter after all that you have been through. Babies are funny buggers and if she won't take the boob for a day, your supply is so well established that no harm will come. Promise. I haven't even tried a bottle or cup for M when I am here. As for the crying, I think it can be a vicious circle when you go in and they want a cuddle and to be fed. COuld your DH go in to stop Ph smelling you and thinking of a feed? I hate hearing M cry but he does have a wee grizzle when he goes to sleep as wind down thing. If I go in and pick him up, he is all smiles and cheery, but not asleep! If your tolerance is, say, 6 mins, could you persuade yourself to try to do 8 mins to stretch the time out if DH can't help? I will be thinking of you today and hoping you got a better night. I'll also put my thinking cap on to see what else I can think of which might help. Your milk will be fine and so will P. Big love to you darling as well.

LadyT - I love having a plan. Fingers crossed something good comes along.

Arti - I had a weep at your story. Hope the day went well for you.

Sorry not time for more personals. Need to leap in bath and start the day. Hope all are well and refreshed after a bit of sleep (fingers crossed the babies took the hint).

BAck later.

trace Try not to worry too much about P not having a feed before bed. I know when I was BF DS he did occasionally have times when he just wouldn't feed. It was if he had a cold or teeth hurting. He was back to his usual self several hours later. If she is refusing feeds today, try expressing a bit just to keep your supply stimulated. I'm sure its just one of many a blip that these darn babies seem to have. I do hope that you had a good night and got seem sleep. The way you have handled the constant night wakings is amazing...and you are amazing! Really you are.

lady T good luck with the meeting.

kayz Bummer about the washer

syb Glad work went well

effie We used to let DD watch TV on the potty etc as she was very potty-adverse in the beginning. I even recall a sandwich on it one time and several stories being read to her on it. Although DD was a hit with the potty overall, we did have a month a few months ago where she was constantly wetting herself - and she knew it. I think she was trying to exercise control or something. You have my sympathies.

Well DH and I had big chat last night about DD. Although it nearly ended in a row we calmed it down and he has promised to be firmer with her and back me up. He says that with him working shifts somedays and then long hours when he sees her he just wants to spoil her. I explained that sometimes QT qith Daddy is treat enough after a week with mummy. I think he got my point eventually. So far today DD and I have been up 1.5 hours and we have not fallen out with each other

Re: my redundancy DH and I was talking about it last night. Dh pointed out that I was planning on returning to college next year to do my PGCE (providing I get on the course) it might not be such a bad thing. My redundancy pay would more than cover the next 12 months wages, and I would get some extra time with DS before I abadon him for a full time course iyswim. Either way I am now of the opinion that 'whatever will be will be'. Tis out of my hands and I doubt very much I can change the outcome,

Trace your poor thing, I can't definitively say that your PND isn't causing this but I am exactly the same with crying, I'm a little better with DS2 than I was with DS1 but I still can't leave him to cry etc. I also still keep having little panics that I might drop him down the stairs accidently and have vivid visions of this it scares the bejuggers out of me. But I think it's just part of having someone you love so intensely so dependent on you. Well I hope it is. With the BF relax your supply is so established now that even if it does drop down a bit she will push it back up again if I were you I would express a bit just to build up a supply in your freezer if you can otherwise just wait til she picks it up again. If your concerned about her fluids maybe take her to the GP for a checkover it could be she has a little ear ache or infection, or she could be teething and finding it painful to feed. But a couple of days won't dry up your supply.

Kayz that's rediculous it's cheaper to buy a reconditioned old one, how do they fix them.