Sept 08 - Is it day or night?

[lollyheart]

Hope no one minds me starting a new thread?

I quite like Gina Ford too although she pissed me off with ds1 with the stuff about putting them in bed and they will go to sleep. I didnt like that she didn't offer any suggestions of how to get them to go to sleep. So I followed the feeding pattern roughly but ignored the sleeping bits. With ds2 I had a quick look at the book again but haven't been reading it much as ds2 has got himself pretty much into her routine. Only things that come to mind that are different are that I'll let him sleep till about 7.45am before waking him (he usually wakes by 7.30 tho) and the evening split feed I do at about 6.20 then 7.20 with wash or bath in between. Oh and no sleeping in bed for most naps esp not in the evening.
Basically I think she is quite good if you take her with a pinch of salt and don't stress if at 8.17am you are not eating your breakfast as she has instructed you to do.

btw I took my baby out into oxf circus in the closer baby sling today, it works very well and is lovely and snug and cosy. rather a lot of fabric, you can't look terribly cool swaddled in pea-green fabric but I got a lot of cooing from women everywhere when they spotted the baby tucked inside. V comfy but then DD is only 7lb at 6 wks!

Debi I think it was the 'put them in the cot, in the dark, well swaddled' at nap times, with no suggestions about what one might do when they screamed, that caused the hollow laugh when T was a week old.

I think most of the problems with gina actually stem from her being a crap writer - if you read her books carefully she's really quite sympathetic to the needs of babies, but it gets buried under all the instructions! The people I know who have had joy with her routines all focused on getting the feeds right, and worried about getting the naps to the right length/in the right place once the feeding was sorted.

I have used (with great success if he happens to be at exactly the right level of sleepiness) the baby whisperer techniques for settling, but also use walking with him in the baby bjorn, the pram, rocking, bouncing in chair, everything!

Carrieon I'm sure your DS will get the hang of being awake in the day eventually - T has literally only really started getting it in the last 10 days, and he's enormous and was late, so probably the equivalent of a 7 week old, rather than the 6 weeks he actually is.

Ooh, DS was properly focussing on black and white pictures today. I had a proper proud mother moment, and realised he was a total pfb if I was that excited about the eyes focusing!

Debi I think it was the 'put them in the cot, in the dark, well swaddled' at nap times, with no suggestions about what one might do when they screamed, that caused the hollow laugh when T was a week old.

I think most of the problems with gina actually stem from her being a crap writer - if you read her books carefully she's really quite sympathetic to the needs of babies, but it gets buried under all the instructions! The people I know who have had joy with her routines all focused on getting the feeds right, and worried about getting the naps to the right length/in the right place once the feeding was sorted.

I have used (with great success if he happens to be at exactly the right level of sleepiness) the baby whisperer techniques for settling, but also use walking with him in the baby bjorn, the pram, rocking, bouncing in chair, everything!

Carrieon I'm sure your DS will get the hang of being awake in the day eventually - T has literally only really started getting it in the last 10 days, and he's enormous and was late, so probably the equivalent of a 7 week old, rather than the 6 weeks he actually is.

Ooh, DS was properly focussing on black and white pictures today. I had a proper proud mother moment, and realised he was a total pfb if I was that excited about the eyes focusing!

LOL at you Routiners! Hopefully I guessed you'd be one . Glad your all finding a way of staying sane, and glad you're adapting things to make it work for you and without being too strict.

In truth I think most people come up with a routine of sorts, particularly those with older kids, but some people can get stressed if it is 5 mins past the start of a nap time and they're stuck in traffic. This is where routines get a bit unhealthy imo.

kookie I still get lots of attention with dd in the sling. She's now 11.5 pounds!

yes I know what you mean starlight about where a routine can get unhealthy. I know roughly what times ds2 will feed but its always plus or minus about half an hour and I wouldn't stress if it got put out by more. I did worry about it more with ds1 but not now.

The other thing I disagreed with GF about was that she says the baby should have blackout blinds and should always sleep in its bed. I thought that sounded like setting yourself up for problems when you went to stay somewhere that didn't have blackout blinds or being out and the baby having to sleep in the car/buggy/arms or whatever and not being able to.

I think you're right though hopefully about the way the book is written. She is probably a much softer, lovely person in real life but sometimes doesn't come across well.
Also when I read the book I picture Supernanny as her then have to remind myself that Jo Frost and Gina Ford are not the same person (or maybe they are)

don't thing GF would approve of me this time, dd only sleeps in her crib at night, unless dp sleeps on the sofa and she takes his place ! and dd really doesn't sleep as she "should" during the day...

starlight - got a friend that sticks o routine probably by the second... so stressfl when she comes over as ds and her dd get on well and there are always tears when they go, but her dd must have tea at 5 and be in bed by 6.30.... (and we're talking once every few months!)

For the ones that are still looking to buy a slingBebecannelle has some slings and wraps on sale. They have just send me an email. Check it out if you are interested. You can buy a Gypsymama in green, and the one I have in purple for around £30.00. Free delivery. PLUS they gave me the code to get 10% of from them :"bebecannelle" OR " Bebecannelle"
Hope it hepls>itis like the Kari-me, but softer and not as strechy.

Ths is the link:
www.bebecannelle.com/collections/sale

I met some militant GF mothers at a NCT thing and they quite frightened me. Then I chatted to a friend who complained that her 6 year old has no fixed bed time, so she can never plan social things for the evening! I decided that some where down the middle will be the right path for us!!

The "What to expect" book gives a good perspective on the whole "parent guided" versus "attachment based" debate. It says parenting books usually fall into one category or the other, and can be quite dogmatic in their positions. But it says that in practice most parents choose bits to suit them or the particular situation.

But let's face it, whatever the philosophy, just the fact that someone has put some thought into their approach to parenting already makes them a better than average parent!

Hopefully - Email me on lorwiggins at yahoo dot co dot uk and I'll send it on.

Howler - Would you like me to send you my Close sling with the nappy (seeing as I still haven't managed to send it yet). I have a Baby Bjorn I can use for a week whilst you try the Close.

Hopefully thanks a lot for the very articulate post about your routine. It's given me a few ideas and I think it has started up an interesting discusssion. I think I'll start trying to put some structure on and will report to MN with progress!

starlight i can't imagine how you guessed I'd be a routine person... Was it the spreadsheets that gave me away?
I know what you mean about not being obsessive - the morning when I had hysterics because I overslept I realised I needed to chill out about it a bit!

debi I agree about the blackout thing - I always thought that was stupid, as you'd end up with a baby that could only sleep in pitch dark silence. besides which, the best way to get t back on track if his naps go off is to pop him in the pram for a walk, so I disobey her there...

I definitely think that all parenting styles from GF to attachment and everything in between work perfectly well, and can result in well balanced, nprmal children, it just depends on what kind of parent you are and what will keep you sane. I think probs only occur when parents are inconsistent, let kids get away with completely inappropriate behaviour and don't have their kids' respect as fellow human beings.

Lollipop thanks for that, will email you asap!

Pacita glad to help, hope you can begin to implement something that works for you.

Must say, it's really nice to have such different parenting techniques mixing on one thread with no one suggesting anyone's being a 'bad' parent for the choice they've made.

Elizabeth has made her own routine really, the only thing that I have done is make sure we take her up to bed by 10.30 every night, the rest has been dictated by when she wants to feed and luckily she's like clock work in the night. During the day I just let her feed when she wants to feed and sleep when and where she wants to sleep. I've been told by my parents that I'm 'making a rod for my own back' (ohh shove off!!) with letting her sleep on my chest if we've been having a cuddle but I really couldn't care less because she's got no problem at the moment with sleeping in her basket at night, if she started having problems then yes, I might consider never letting her sleep on me, but I think she should be allowed to do it as she clearly enjoys it and I can't see the harm. A lot of the time if she's asleep on me and I put her in her basket she will stay asleep anyway.

Hopefully - I have steralised the dummy and I'll put it in the post today.

i have to say i'm with you Starlight, I'm not a routine person but do think that babies will tend to find their own way if they can.

I feel as M is a second child, for me it would be impossible to have a strict routine anyway as we have to work around dd1's activities as well.

Saying that I tend to be aware of the last time M fed, slept etc as I think it can give clues to what her signals mean.

However, as a lot of you have said you have to do what works out right for you and the baby and causes least stress all round

MIL and SIL here at the moment, amazed I haven't had the dummy conversation yet (although I think I heard DH having it with MIL - they obviously know me weel enough by now). I do have several 'interesting' outfits that M has to model in the next couple of days and months. I have to say I just like all-in-ones for such little babies.

I am also want to issue a challenge - expressed nearly 12 oz yesterday - can anyone beat that? I had to go for a shopping trip with the IL's so M had 2 small feeds, and when I got back was sorting out tea and halloween stuff so DH gave MIL a bottle to feed M as he thought she'd like to so the expressing was 7 hours after the last feed [explosive boobs emotion] - I now have enough to survive today's shopping expedition at the trafford centre (all they do is shop and watch soaps)

lollipop - thanks for the offer, if it's not too much bother or cost too much in postage, I'd like to try it, thanks!

Hopefully I have never been against routine, and I suspect pro-bfers aren't either, but both regulating when a baby eats, and getting stressed about a routine before supply is established CAN ruin the chances of bfing. It's where the routine is rigidly imposed despite a very tiny baby getting distressed that I want to strangle the mother .

I suspect very much that your bfing was established fairly early hopefully. I seem to remember you could could the no. of times your lo WAS'T bfing on one hand.

Baby Starlight has a good ole sleep now (with breaks for food but not playtime iyswim) from 2am - 11am. I'd be mad to just accept that that is what she wants and go with it, so I'm actively trying to nudge the sleep backwards

lollipop Tell them it's your back and you're into s&m. Besides, it seems like you have a beautiful natural routine.

ninja I agree all-in-ones rock. an't be faffed with the fiddley fastenings and that whenever you pick them up, you're pulling material up, down, sideways etc. And it's a pita to have to change the whole outfit 5 secs before guests arrive because of baby sick etc. I think we should all live in all-in-ones actually

BTW: I've only managed 8oz and I have fast letdown and oversupply apparently!

Oh ninja, if your "interesting" outfits are anything like the gifts we have received for DD I do pity you! I am so surprised at the impractical, fussy, and PINK horrors we have been given. (And by people who I thought had good taste... ).

Frankly, DD lives in sleepsuits atm, and it is such a faff to wear anything else apart from a hat or jacket when we go out. Just when she is supposed to wear the pink smock dress with lace collar, fussy buttons, and ribbon ties I really don't know. (Tea with the vicar, perhaps? ) It needs to be ironed, and hand-washed. Can't see that happening!

PMSL at handwashing baby clothes! In what world?

I even think ironing is a bit obsessive, but I realise that that is just me!

No starlight, it's not just you!

Definitely not just you.

Anybody who is sensitive to gory details look away now...

Diego just did the biggest, most explosive, dijon mustard poo. It went EVERYWHERE, including me, when I changed him (had to submerge him in the bath, as both vest, pyjamas and baby had shit from ankle to armpit). I got poo in my nightdress (which I'm still wearing). Then he started wailing so I decided to turn it inside out to keep the poo stain away from him and strapped him into the kari-me, where he is now blissfully asleep.

Don't worry ladies, I will have a shower, eventually...

I love ironing the baby clothes but mostly because I am still totally addicted to the smelly ironing water! I found it when I was pregnant and got totally addicted to it, but I thought it was just a silly pregnancy thing and it'd wear off but no, I can still be found madly sniffing my DDs babygros! [mad sniffing woman emoticon]!

My DP asked this morning whether we were making our DD into a bit of a 'pampered princess' by letting her sleep on us when she cries. Apparently 'someone at work' said it was bad to let her do this. FFS, piss off would you! Other than nearly punching my DP in the face I thought I was very restrained in my answer! What is everyone's problem with giving a baby a cuddle when they're crying FFS? I do let her cry for 30sec or so to see if she'll self settle, then give her dummy and if not settled then i'll pick her up, surely I am not totally mad in thinking this is an ok thing to do for a 7w/o baby?

lollipop Of course it is. Men are funny sometimes. DH knows I've researched and researched bfing, and also 'sleep training' and that in general I want to keep the bf/ff ratio as much bf as possible and not sleep train but sleep coerce if we need to, yet in week 2 he still said

'Why don't you get some rest, I'll give her a bottle of formula.' and 'You can't just pick her up every time she cries - when is she going in her own bedroom?'

But, that WAS week 2 and life is tough tough tough then.

Guess I've been lucky there, only got similar comments from a friend...

anyway, put FullMoonHowler in the cupboard til next year, and about to post Halloween pics... and I've had a loooooong shower !!! soooooooooo nice.......

Hi.
Re. routines, Well done if you have one already.
I don't have any. She feeds when she wants, every 3 hrs more or less and then she sleeps on me, in the sling or the carricot if I am out.At night time, she sleeps while feeding when we are watching TV and when I go to bed, never before 22:30 I woke her up, change her nappy, get her into her sleepsuit, grobag ,and BF her to sleep.
THE NEWS is that yesterday the bedside cot arrived and after BF her I put her in the cot and knowing where she was, not in my bed,she went to sleep, waking up only twice to feed!!!!!!!!!!!, and I have slept without the danger of rolling on top of her.
I recommend the bedside cot.Thank you digitalgirl for recommending it to me. It is £30.00 cheaper in Mothercare at the moment.

I am tryng to get rid of the crib for £25.00 in Exeter with new matress and a mobile, none of my children slept on it. I hate the thing.

pacita My Kari-me is in the wash, after a huge.... my daughter did while her father was carrying her at home for the first time after 5 min.I am going to tumble dry it on low heat, although it says I shouldn't.