October 2014 // thread 6 // baby's new year resolution is to sleep more?!

[sazzlehopes]

So, light relief:

After a gap of over a year, I'm back on the Couch to 5K running wagon (also 5:2 diet, but that's by the by). So I've just spent half an hour on the treadmill with rock music blaring out while DS sat in his high chair under a blanket, pulling this face:

Yes, dear. Mummy is a sweaty nutter.

Controlled crying not for us either, tried two minutes of it (on hv advice) and ended with hysterics and sick. Poor little man I can't do that to him. Going to bed being a problem for us too. If DH insisting on trying to settle rather than me using 'comfort' boob how do you manage to convince DH to hand over to the boob without causing him to feel useless??

Of course Moose. For the benefit of everyone I'll write them here. But in the interest of fairness (and with respect to out breastfeeding Mums) someone should add the equally important benefits of breastfeeding. Please, please don't make this into a bun fight - it is not meant to be.

I'm certain there will be things I miss, so anyone can add or challenge as they think of things.

Your baby is never hungry when you give formula. This is the key to everything. When you breastfeed it is necessary to accept that sometimes your baby will be hungry. This is what clusterfeeding is all about and when baby has a growth spurt - Mother and baby have to work to increase supply as baby grows and so during this time baby wants more milk and the milk isn't readily there (yet).

This ^ doesn't happen with formula. You always give bottles bigger than you know baby needs, so there is extra. So no crying due to hunger.

You can see how much milk baby has. Do not underestimate the reassurance this provides, especially if you are sometimes anxious anyway.

A full tummy promotes the 'milk drunk' stage when they are easier to get to sleep because they are so full up.

If you have a baby that was hungry and not sleeping too well and you suddenly find they are sleeping a million times better and crying loads less, you may want to shout from the rooftops about it. But most Mums who give formula and find this keep very quiet about it - because no one wants to be disrespectful to an EBF Mum who is struggling. Which is fair enough. But it means the positive formula stories are not so readily shared.

Which leads me to (IMO) the main benefit to formula - Healthy, positive effects on mothers mental health. I worried with DC3 about bonding given I was ff. In fact I bonded with him so much more easily. It is easy to adore all the fun parts of motherhood when all the hard work of breastfeeding is removed. If you are sleeping more, have a baby who is more easily contented - you are bound to enjoy the joys of this Motherhood malarkey more.

If you consider the total length of feeding time through the day for a formula feeder (and add on 10 minutes to prepare bottles for the day) I'd still say it is time saving overall for most.

• Formula feeding is easy, plentiful, immediate.
• No waiting for letdown
• No having to up supply in a growth spurt
• Helps separate feeds, rather than breastfeeding 'snacking'

... which helps establish routines

• Others can feed baby
• You can 'load' though the daytime with frequent feeds

... Which (might) lead to fewer night feed

• Reduced pressure on yourself = great for mental health
• More sleep = great for mental health
• Less crying/happier baby = great for mental health

There is a counter point to be made for the benefit of breastfeeding for each and every benefit of formula feeding that I've given. I am not suggesting formula is better then breastfeeding. Just that formula feeding is equally as good for you and baby as breastfeeding. It's just that Health Care Professionals cannot exalt the benefits of formula to you, so it is hard to get the message out.

Sorry about massive post

It's tricky Happy but I really tried hard not to insist he handed him over and actually I'm glad I managed because DH has learned to settle DS now. DH woukd never have let him get hysterical - he (apologetically) did hand him over when really needed to.

I'd also like to add - that formula often does not solve problems like you think it might.

On the September thread there is a Mum who's formula fed baby is dropping centiles and occasionally losing weight.

In addition, with my DC1 after 8 months of struggling I started mix feeding when I returned to work. I expected that she would magically start sleeping through the night and we would not have all the nightmare problems settling her to sleep and keeping her asleep.

Alas formula milk will not change poor sleeping habits. If you have a baby that doesn't drop to sleep easily, giving formula may not be the magic wand you are expecting.

Thanks fate, its nice to heat both sides of the story. A month ago i wouldnt have even considered formula because i was so worried it would be bad for him despite all the happy healthy ff babies in the world
Im still keen to carry on bf, but if he drops any more centiles i will try mixed feeding, ive spent the past 8 weeks worrying im starving the poor bugger and it would be nice to get off the sofa one of these days :)

Adding some formula has had a positive effect on my mental health certainly. It's taken some pressure off and meant my baby has started gaining weight so my anxiety is lessened. I'm still breastfeeding 8-10 times a day so it's not given me a break (yet) but I do feel better.

It's had no effect on his sleep but he wasn't terrible anyway. I suppose if I upped the amount significantly it might help.

I've been really lucky that he still loves being breastfed, I'd be really sad if (when?) he decides to stick to bottles. I wonder if the fact that I've so far managed to not give a bottle myself helps, DH works from home so he's doing the four bottles a day.

If I have another baby I would consider just formula feeding which is crazy as before having DS it didn't really cross my mind as a possibility. I absolutely assumed I would exclusively breastfeed. I was devastated when A got his first bottle.

fate I found that really interesting- thank you for posting it. I sort of wanted to ask you ages ago, when you mentioned it before, because the benefits of formula intrigue me.

I should say that I have found breast feeding incredibly easy, which is absolutely my good luck, so everything I say is based on that- if it was difficult for us I'd give formula, no problem, but as it is...

First, breast feeding doesn't involve faff. It's immediate, I don't have to worry about equipment, I can do it anywhere, I don't have to take anything special, I'm a very lazy person.

Second, and oddly a similar point to one of yours- I don't have to worry about whether I'm feeding her the right amount. I feed her when she wants to be fed and I don't have to worry about amounts, if I'm giving her too much etc. I'd worry about this so much more with formula- bf I just find reassuring.

Mostly, though, it's like a magic bullet to calm my baby down. If she's grouchy, if she's crying, if I just accidentally knocked her head on a door frame, stick a tit in her mouth and that's her okay. It makes her go to sleep. Yes, it ties me to her, but it also ties her to me. It's comfort for her in the most basic way, and I feel that it's rooted her in some important way.

Honestly I'm suspicious of the research on the long term health benefits, and I also think that we make balancing decisions all the time about our children's welfare, and I don't see why this should be any different- it's all pros and cons. We should be given the information and allowed to make up our own minds. For me, though, breast feeding is ace- but that's because of me and my child and our lives, more than because it's in some way objectively "the best".

Second, and oddly a similar point to one of yours...

A lot of the points in the breast and bottle debate are similar. Many are identical. The two 'sides' of the debate come at it from a different point of view but often reach the same end point.

Both breastfeeding and bottle feeding are equally good for both mother and baby. Just good in different ways.

We all want content babies and happy parents. That's it really.

Just need to rant

PLEASE STOP CRYING. WHY WONT YOU STOP CRYING AND JUST GO TO SLEEP.

There. Feel better already.

Thanks splendide for avoidance of doubt DH didn't make him hysterical

In a similar way to fed up stop chewing on me its been an hour for gods sake and either feed or go to sleep!
After the past few weeks im now in complete fear of night :s

Oh god yet again I go to get ready for bed and he goes bat shit crazy and throws up over DH, what to do?!!!!

We just went out on a date - she screamed on my mum and drank the entire emergency bottle despite being fed just before we left, but never mind.

My lesson of the day: While 4+ hour daytime naps are great for watching stuff you missed on Catch Up, the totally fuck up the rest of the normal routine so are not worth it

Looks like we have mostly all had a fun evening tonight

And this is highly unusual for me, I very rarely drink.

Baby was asleep at 7.
At 7.10 she woke up because she coughed.
At 8.25 I went downstairs to eat dinner after she finally went to sleep.
8.50 DH sent upstairs, after 15 mins I suggest nappy change through the monitor at which point he gets all narky and rude that I woke the baby up, it's all my fault... I got angry and told him off, then threw the cat out into the rain for being a dick.
Grrr.
Rant over, sorry!

Bet you enjoyed the 4 hours nap at the time though FATE! Enjoy that glass of wine, you deserve it

2hrs of nipple chewing... no sign of sleep.... waaaahhhhh

4 hour nap was great - watched tons of TV under a snuggly fleecy blanket.

If anyone hasn't seen the Channel 4 film Cyber Bully - it is very good and definitely worth a watch.

However it was her only nap. She normally has several smaller naps and is rarely awake longer than 2 hours. Today she woke at 2.45pm. Fine until about 6pm and then all hell broke lose. Too tired to sleep, refused bottle, breast, dummy. Nightmare. She did have jabs yesterday, that's what I'm blaming it on.

Goats My Mum did the first few babysittings we had when DD screamed through them all (this was before she's have the dummy or bottle). I felt really bad for my Mum having to deal with it, but my Mum relished the challenge.

Mums are great.

Munday, fedup, happy, moose - are babies sleeping yet? Fingers crossed for a good night.

Babymoose is in a crappy cycle of bite like a demon, comes off himself, seems fast asleep, does shark attack style thrashing around and wakes himself up!
Hes been doing this since 8pm... normally if i dont move him he'll have a decent nap next to me or at least 30mins in his cot. No idea whats up with him, have tried calpol, anbesol, dentinox
Dh has got annoyed and gone to sleep and is snoring away. I was hoping we were slowly getting better not worse :(

Dummy as something to suck on might help? Nipple out, dummy in. Re-try swaddling? Feeding lying down and co-sleeping? I used to basically sleep all night with nipple in DSs mouth.

Annoyingly he pushes the dummy out, i think he wants to chew on the end but then it falls out.
I just really dont get why when he seems sound asleep he starts violently shaking his head from side to side, going to have bruised boobs if he keeps this up