March 2013- the one where plonk gets married!

[Gerrythetootallgiraffeswife]

Perilously close to filling the old thread suddenly!

Also Rainbow I completely agree with you, my one big concern about private education is the same as yours. I grew up in a big city as a middle class girl in a rough school and it meant that I was used to socialising with people significantly better off than me, significantly worse off and everywhere in between plus all kinds of racial, social and family backgrounds. I think that's really important to give a grounded and rounded view of society so if DD does go to private secondary I'd be encouraging her to do activities outside of school too so she wasn't only mixing with other privileged kids. Obviously in an ideal world though I'd be living in a huge barn of a house in lovely Harrogate by then and sending her to a great state secondary!!!

I've spent the last four hours in bed with a cracking migraine, my first terrible one for ages, I've scratched my cornea and have pus pouring from my eye and I've got dire rear. I feel very sorry for myself! I'm having a 5min mumsnet with the brightness turned down to bugger all and then back to bed. Everything's better on a Sunday!

P.S. Eco I hope you've come out from under the last 10 boxes to enjoy some of the weekend!

betty I think the additional problem with private schools in terms of socialisation is that all the additional activities that you would usually do outside of school to expose you to even more people, like swimming clubs, orchestras, dance, sport etc are very much self-contained at private school. My sister did everything at school with the same people and was there all day till 6pm and on Saturdays while I did all my extra curricular activities outside of school and had loads of different friendship groups which was great. Having said that, quality of education matters so it's always going to be a difficult choice (if you even have one in the first place!). Hope you are feeling much better today!

eco hope you are settling in and finally enjoying some lovely family time!

Thank you so much everyone for sharing your views and experiences on schooling. It's really helped. This forum and MN in general is such an amazing tool!

I think for now my decision is to try and get her into a local pre-prep, there are a few, and apparently some have waiting lists starting from before the children are actually born. How insane is that?!!!

After that, unless she is showing signs of being a budding genius, it will be the local primary and secondary. I agree that transitioning from private to state at 11 would be a recipe for getting your head kicked in as the 'posh' girl. I'm testament to the fact bright kids do well regardless, so my priority above anything else is trying to find a route that will minimise dd's chances of being bullied, and I'll pull her straight out if I see it happening.

To be honest I all I want is for the toddle to be confident and independent. A string of A stars is not on my agenda. Doesn't help in the real world. What helps is intelligence, confidence, an ability to think on your feet and deal with people from all walks of life. DH has that in spades, and it seems to work for him. It's actually one of his more attractive traits. Doesn't matter if you are the CEO of a global investment bank, or the bin man. He treats you exactly the same, as an equal, and a friend.

Glad you have a plan now, doli. Of course, now you still have to choose between the available pre-preps...

How's everyone today, aside from quiet? It's relatively peaceful here. Fartypants has learnt how to sit down and watch an entire episode of Mr Tumble. Now all we need is a channel showing Mr Tumble 24/7, and I may get some sanity back.

Quiet day here too Stormy. The toddle has reacted really badly to Fridays vaccinations so was up all night last night as well as the previous night, as her arms have swollen up and are obviously very sore. She's 2 hours into an afternoon nap now, so hopefully sleeping off the worst of it. Thank god for DH. If he hadn't stayed up all night with her I think I might have died!!!

Poor dolitoddle, give her a squeeze from me when she wakes up. Hope she's feeling better tomorrow.

Poor dolitoddle. Is that a normal reaction doli? Is it the reaction from the pox vaccine or the meningitis one? I have yet to book the jabs. I am unsure of which clinic to go to.

We had a lazy Sunday here. Dh did a bit of light DIY and I did a bit of light cleaning ready for the week ahead.

gerry is schools out yet?

stormy I love mr tumble. Actually, I like a lot of the children's tv shows.

eco have you unpacked?

Education is confusing. I have to decide whether I will keep ds in a nursery or preschool. Decisions decisions.

We saw a great one today. Pop Shop, I think it was called. Really excellent music for a kids' show.

What is it with toddlers and piping ten minutes after they've gone to bed? Argh!

And what is it with my soddin' autocorrect? Fartypants is not in the habit of piping in bed. Pooing in bed, on the other hand...

I've just found my dream job! Part time copywriter, can work from home, based in Hull. If anyone has any gods to pray to, throw in a request for me?

Hello everyone. Crazy person here decided that two days after moving house would be a good time to honour an existing engagement and head back to Norfolk for a camping weekender. So we were searching through everything for our camp gear on Friday and squeezing everything into our car ready for a long journey back to the mother land (along with half of the south east seemingly). There were eight sets of parents and babies! It was a pretty crazy camp with two thunder storms, lots of nap refusal, much running feral in nappies and long long long bedtimes (remedied by home brew for parents). Fun but exhausting. Now back in the bath soaking off the grime.Nutter.

I agree with Gerry on the educational standards in private schooling. Until recently I was lucky enough to be an advisory teacher who went into schools (invited) to support with the development of curriculum and teaching strategies. Mostly I worked in state schools but sometimes in private sector as well. It was really easy to look great in private schools because they were impressed with even the most basic ideas. State schools appear much more progressive and innovative in their teaching and learning. I grew up in a chichi village where only four other children went to the local state school, everyone else went to various private schools. That sucked for community cohesion. I too am a leftwing type who feels fairly strongly that my children will go to the local school. But maybe the fact that we'd never afford a fee paying school strengthens my feelings on the matter. Whilst managing field centres where different groups of children came for residential visits I taught both state and private children and young people. The sense of privilege that Doli mentioned among the privately educated group was strong. To generalise, they were harder to reach because they didn't value things in the same way a group of state kids would. To see that blaze attitude and aura of entitlement in ones so young made me sick to be honest. I think that even beautifully raised children can get tainted by that pack mentality. However, same could be said for state educated children and gangs etc so I can see why it's a point of debate. I think to be honest I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder so I'm not the best person to share views, and it doesn't sound like Doli needs more input anyway! I see your situation Doli and agree that pre prep might be most sensible. I don't even know if private sector follow the early years foundation stage guidelines but 5 believe that 'educating' anyone under five is a bit yucky. But I'm a big old hippy and I think that learning through self led play is the way to go. But I'm not into Steiner either......but seemingly neither are most of mumsnet. That's a whole separate rant! For what it's worth I went to whatever school was local to where we lived. We moved a lot during my primary years. I always had good friends, won awards for achievement throughout my school career and largely enjoyed the experience despite some bullying related to my slim frame and eczema. Posh school or dodgy comp that would probably still have happened. The most important thing for me with any school is how it feels when you walk in and see the children. If it feels happy and nurturing I'm sold. And that could be paying or non fee paying I guess. Pointless ramble there ladies, apologies.

Doli that sounds a pretty rubbish reaction, but when considering bigger picture, worth it. Hoping you get a better night tonight.

Gerry I don't think I missed this but how did THE chat go? If it happened at all then hats off for getting the ball rolling.

Plonky, you're getting married this week!!! Yippee and hurrah! How can we help? We used LPs as our table numbers/names despite the black not fitting in with the wedding colours one is supposed to have so don't ask me about that I am excited for you and can't wait to see pics of you twirling that cute ass dress and shoes around the dance floor.

Shattered thank you for returning to the flock! for your crappy fortnight. Feeling any brighter?

Stormy we don't have the poop problem but I liked your use of piping. I thought you were referring to the classic whinge they do ten minutes after being left in cot, as in 'piping up'.

Right, this camp grime's not going to soak off, I need products to remove it so best away and scrub?

stormy I don't know why but I guessed piping meant poop related. Sending good vibes ypur way for the job.

eco I love your crazy adventures. Never change please.

From my experience as a social worker state schools are a lot more clued up on safeguarding children and have a lot more resources for pastoral care rather than private schools. Although things are changing fast in London especially with academies popping up everywhere. I don't know if they are bad or good but I believe they are able to make decisions for themselves and decided what resources they buy in. I think education will be changing by the time our dc start so lets see what the future holds.

Sounds like a great trip eco! An additional bit of stress but it sounds like you had some fab company.

Yes the wedding....aargh! The nerves are settling in now, for both of us. The silly questions are flooding in from friends incapable of following my simple instructions. A table plan solution has been found. Mum has found crystallised rose petals to too the cake. I've even ordered an ocado shop to arrive the afternoon we get to our honeymoon destination, and it contains a whole salmon luckily DSis will be there to cook it for us.

It feels crazy. But I'm also having the period from hell and want to eat my body weight in chocolate/feel a bit sick.

Stormy good luck with the job application, it sounds perfect.

Eco I completely agree with most of what you've mentioned about private schools. The sense of entitlement that goes with a private education is profound. I know people who, as teenagers, were given Freelanders to drive, people whose parents built an extra small house on their land for a 16 year old, and a girl who threw copper coins in the bin if there wasn't space in her purse. I went to 3 different fee paying schools - primary, senior and 6th form - and never say beside anyone from a background that was anything other than pleasant and middle class. It's frightening. And I don't doubt that I really do fit the head in the clouds, naive, entitled mould but I try so hard to suppress it. I can't even say I found it hard to keep up with my peers in the entitled-to stakes, but I do know that my parents sent me to those schools because they were so terrified of me (and DSis) getting stuck in shitty jobs with no prospects or qualifications. They're children of the baby boom, and rose from humble roots to comfortably owning a successful business, and very much of the mindset that you pay for what you get. My dad is horrified at the prospect of ds going to a 'bog standard' comp

Very quick post as shit loads to do but GOOD LUCK STORMY!!!!

Plonky how insensitive of me. I was generalising based on my experiences, but I neglected to remember that you are part of my experience too and that you are a) normal and b) lovely and c) about as far away from my stereotype as possible. You are clever and grateful and connected to the reality of the masses. My best girlfriend is a privately educated woman too so I should remember these things before generalising and forgetting my own reality!

And, your sister is going on your honeymoon? Perfect! You have a slave

Stormy that sounds serendipitous from what you've said in the past. Go for it and tell us if our combined skills can help you.

Is head in the clouds, naïve and entitled really a privately educated thing, Plonk? Cos I know bog standard comp educated members of the underclass who definitely fit that description!

Job application done, now to wait and hope. Only 21 applications for it since the start of June, which is promising - so many jobs I could apply for have 100+ applicants and I know right from the off that I haven't a hope in hell with any of them. But words I can do (I even have a degree in them) so fingers crossed.

Fx for you Stormy!

Those odds sound good Stormy.

No Eco don't worry, I'm merely reflecting! Hard not to when I agree with pretty much everything that's been said for reasons not to educate privately, and yet I'm a product of that system. I think what I was trying to get across is that in my experience, privately educated folks tend to have little drive and instead rely on a network of old boys, favours and handouts.

Any who. Yep my sister will be on my honeymoon. And her fella. And ds. They 'booked' the parents place in Dorset for the week after the wedding before we could call dibs, and we didn't manage to find a holiday cottage for the dates we wanted that wasn't charging extortionate summer prices, so we came to an agreement. I think the only activity we've planned to do together is Monkey World and a few beach walks. They've offered to babysit so we can pop out for a slap up newlywed dinner one night. It'll be so good to get away, I can't wait to leave the wedding planning behind!

Good luck Stormy! I wish we could all give you a reference. I don't think there could be anyone better qualified for that job.

Another rough night, because it is just too hot, and I don't as yet have a sheet bag for her. A vest is too cold, PJs too hot, and her 1 tog with just a nappy even hotter. Sheet bag is on order as everywhere I have tried locally has sold out. Fingers crossed for a cooler night tonight.

It's a but wrong to generalise really, private school doesn't instil a sense of entitlement, it is the parents who do that. I think the pupils aren't necessarily given the right tools to work independently and achieve by themselves though, as so much stake is set by results learning is micromanaged. I liked my 6th form. If you didn't turn up, no one cared. If you didn't do your homework, no one cared. If you didn't show for exams, no one cared.... BUT if you went to the teachers, asked for help, showed an interest, actively wanted to learn they were 100% behind you.

Agghhhhh. Ds is ill again. High temp and dire rear. Had to pick him up from nursery early today.

I hate to say it Doli, but your description of 6th form now wouldn't happen at any state school- learning is micromanaged and students are spoon fed because it's the only way of reaching those ridiculous government targets, and as a result we are failing to instil any sense of independence or self sufficiency in our youngsters. I'm as bad as the rest, but if we didn't do it we wouldn't be allowed to teach anymore and we'd be replaced with someone who was prepared to do it.

We've talked. I'm not sure anything has changed, or will change. In true Gerry style I'm not sure I feel able to say much more than that, I can't really get my thoughts straight at the moment.

So on a happier note, today I taught my last lesson until 8th September. It should have been my last day as well but I'm going in for the rest of the week to try to get some coursework marked. Deep joy. More importantly, I taught the boys who have spent all year trying to bully me for the very last time. Unusual at my school, and if I was less experienced then I think these boys would have made my life miserable this year. I didn't let them, but I must admit to feeling worn down by it all. I have very nice classes and a lot of sixth form next year, which makes me happy.

I was thinking the same re: teaching these days, Gerry. It was bad enough when I was at school, and I can well believe it's got worse in that regard. University may come as a hell of a shock for today's kids.

And we're always here if you do want to talk, Gerry, whether on thread or privately. And if it all goes tits up, there are many teaching jobs and cheap houses in Hull if you need to run away.

yummy oh dear. DS is determined to give his immune system a good workout, isn't he? At this rate by the time he starts school he'll have had every bug there is. Fartypants is ill again too, she's traded hfm for a cold. Not too snotty, but a nasty cough, the sound of which had me googling whooping cough, until I realised she's been vaccinated against it.

Hellishly hot and sticky today. And understaffed in the charity shop. On the plus side, not having a moment to stand still means not having a moment to notice how much one's feet and back ache.

Is that right Gerry? Makes me glad I was a kid 30 years ago. It's like the government are trying to suck the joy out of life and turn the next generation into identikit clones. Or maybe I exaggerate. Oh well. I probably ought to resign myself to the fact the toddle is going to do the flicky hair thing, go up at the end of all her sentences, 'like' everything, and be very conformist. I'll cope. Maybe.

Gerry at least you've started the ball rolling, which has got to be a good thing. I'm hopeful you've got somewhere. Rome wasn't built in a day and relationships are never sorted over night. Which is a rubbish sentence, but positive vibes are what I'm trying to communicate.

Question - How on earth do you get your toddle to sleep in this heat. I have no idea and I have no energy left. She's in PJs, window open, and screaming the place down. I can't pace with her tonight, I will drop dead, and DH is out until v v late. Why oh why did I get myself pregnant in probably the hottest summer we've had since 2006? Seriously bad planning.

Get well soon to fartypants. Coughing is hell because just as they are settling to sleep they start coughing.

doli I have no advice sorry. I got away with it tonight because ds has taken calpol and ibroprufen so that should settle him to sleep. I hope All our windows are open and no breeze whatsoever. I hate feeling sticky. Im sooooo missing winter. If I lived in Cyprus right now we would grab a mattress and sleep on the roof.

gerry I am sorry that you feel nothing has changed YET. Give it time or maybe with some men shock tactics work. Grab an empty suitcase leave it by the door say you are going to leave unless things change.

plonky how are you feeling? Have the period pains reduced? At least you know you can enjoy a period free wedding.

Doli we are keeping window shut and blind closed during day. Window and door open at night and same in our room too to ensure some sort of vague flow of air. Nappy and sheet sleeping bag only. Fan on trained on her. And all this still resulted in a trickier than normal bedtime. It's wretched for them isn't it? And wretched for pregnant ladies, ladies with sore backs and ladies with lots of wedmin to do too I should imagine.

Gerry for finishing school for the summer. Boo to the bullies but hurrah for starting the chat. Didn't mean to be nosey on that. Just hoping you had maintained your momentum. Like Stormy says, we're always here for you.

Stormy, you must have some funny charity shop stories to cheer us up on this clammy evening. Strange things people donate, cheeky people who make you offers for things, the amazing things people buy?