March 2013- the one where plonk gets married!

[Gerrythetootallgiraffeswife]

Perilously close to filling the old thread suddenly!

Shattered so sorry about your friend.

Plonky one week to go!!!! I'm very excited for you, and my only tip for the day is enjoy it and if anything doesn't go quite to plan, just go with the flow. Everyone has a wedding day moment which at the time seemed like a major disaster, but a year down the line seems funny.

First bad reaction to a vaccination here last night, which was unfortunate timing as we're now not going to the naming day. Temp and vomiting. I think also partly down to the heat and humidity which was horrendous, although we did get the best electrical storm ever. Gerry did you see the forked lightning?! Unbelievable.

Someone yesterday pointed out to me that I really need to start thinking about schools. Arghhhh. I've only just got to grips with nursery. One dilemma is a lovely little pre-prep that starts at 3 actually costs the same as a slightly rubbish nursery.... and I bet they don't feed them chips and beans every other day there either. Hmmmm

I've been seeing lots of awesome lightning photos on BBC Breakfast, but no storms here. Very jealous!

What's pre-prep, doli? It sounds from the name like it'd be quite academic, for a three year old. (Also it reminds me of your swimming pool - those little moments that remind me we're in very different regions of the socioeconomic spectrum!)

Good to see you around here, Shattered

Doli hope the toddlepax feels better soon.

And schools...well...I started school at three, for the very reasons that you've outlined. School was cheaper than childminder (whose daughter then became nanny as CM was about 65 at the time). And honestly? If you want to do it then go for it.
I socialised at an early age - but I'm still awkward now. I got used to being one in a group, definitely a good thing. I learnt French when I was 6 but despite years of schooling under my belt I couldn't write until I was 7. I hated private school for living far away from all my friends (no catchment) and I loved private school for giving me support, confidence and a sense that I could achieve anything. My parents tried to move my sister to a local primary when she was 5 and she was too far ahead of her class so they moved her back. The experiment was repeated with me aged 16. Id say that you pick the private prep to save money but aren't necessarily into private education for the long haul, don't do it. If you were thinking of going private all along, and can afford to do it, go for it. Oh and our school meals were appalling but that was 25 years ago.

Fwiw ds will not be going to private school because the ones around here seem to be shite or single sex. We're putting off the school thing as long as we can!

Stormy prep is posh junior school. Pre prep is preschool, which is nursery but with slightly more academic targets.

I've no idea what the private schools round here are like. Seemed a bit pointless investigating. I'm in two minds about single sex schools though. When I was at school myself, I hated the idea, but now I can see some benefits. The principal one being: my education was not exactly enhanced by boys dicking about, and too much teaching time was lost to crowd control. Gerry, any thoughts on the matter? Also there's the issue that our local secondary is diabolical. It's about a decade old, and when it was built they closed the worst few schools in the city and sent all the pupils there, and then wondered why the shiny new building didn't inspire the kids to greater achievement. But we're also in catchment for an all girls secondary. On the plus side we have a fair few years yet before secondary schools become something to fret about.

It's a strange one Stormy. The all boys school next to my girls school recently released a statement saying that studies show there is no educational advantage to single sex schools. Considering that my parents were sold on the idea that boys distract girls and the sexes learn differently, that must've been a hard lesson for them to learn.
Personally I'm against it. Separating teenagers turns girls in to attention seeking jail bait (I know that's a horrid term, sorry) or prima donnas, or completely awkward shrinking violets, and turns boys into...Hugh Grant. Or maybe that was just my school. And I got on better with boys (the ones who'd been to normal schools anyway) so as you can imagine I had a great time surrounded by girls.

Each to their own like, they're just the reasons I'm against it. Unless the only alternative is a bad school, of course.

Nice to see you back shattered. Sorry about your friend.

Ds recovered from his sickness but seems to be a lot more sleepy than usual. Can babies/toddlers be aneamic if mum is too?

I came on here to say imagine being pregnant in this heat/humidity then I remember our very own doli is pregnant. I hope you are managing in this weather. I am missing winter now. This country is not equipped for extreme weather. I am happy with temperatures being early 20c's with sunshine poking through the odd cloud.

Oh no not schools. It took me lots ummm and ahhh'ing about nursery. I am not even thinking about secondary schools but I went to an all girls school and I wouldn't recommend it. Lots of bitching, girls going through puberty in the same building and it didn't stop boys coming to the school at the end of the day. I went to a rough school. Back then my parents weren't clued up on good schools and just chose the nearest one. Saying that I did ok academically so even if it is a not so good school it is up to the individual child to make the best of a rubbish situation.

I think that's the crux of it - go for whichever school is best, whether that's single sex or not. And who knows whether these toddlers will be academically inclined anyway. I just hope none of them do what I did - being by far the cleverest of one's cohort means no one to challenge you and be your foil and spur you on to actually try.

And it's naptime! I'm going to collapse in a heap.

Stormy I don't think we're so very different really. I think you said you are the daughter of a teacher which means you probably had an identical upbringing to both DH and I. We are both also products of the state education system, cautious about using private for many many reasons, and suffered the ignominy of being the most academic in our classes. In my case that resulted in me being horribly bullied, in his he became very disruptive and these days would probably have been labelled ADHD. He was just bored.

The dilemma is nursery is expensive and I am increasingly very disappointed with it. The food is awful, I wouldn't feed my dog that level of salt. The baby room was delightful, and the staff lovely, but the toddler room is not. From what I can see they staff consists of two disaffected teenage girls who are more interested in gossiping than interacting with the children.

I met a teacher from the school I mentioned at the doctors. I would have loved a teacher like that. He was inspirational, not just on an academic front, but as a person. It's not about academic achievement, I actually don't care whether the toddle is bright or not. It's about her having somewhere to go that is fun, and happy, and doesn't feed her sh*te! Oh. and doesn't cost the earth.

But.... for us to send her to private school goes against everything we have said before. So hmmmmm

Hm. Are there no other options? Childminder, nanny, a different nursery? The cost is likely to be a bit scary whatever you go for though. The nursery DD is likely to go to in March charges £165 a week for a full time place, and I'm guessing we're at the cheaper end of the spectrum up here. With prices like that I'm amazed anyone with more than one kid can afford it.

And agreed on the not so different - that's why those occasional moments of "hang on, you have a pool? " happen, because mostly I forget.

You are definitely getting value there Stormy. Ours is £60 a day, so £300 a week.

Bloody hell! I'd be expecting all the food to be hand reared, organic, and drizzled with unicorn tears for that sort of price. Not surprised you're not impressed.

Ouch Doli, that's a lot to be unhappy with. Ours is a third less.

Off out to friends for dinner. Taking toddle with us so hope he goes to bed well tonight - although they don't have dc they have monitors etc for dn when they stay which is nice. I am trying to put together a cool box with the starters I am taking so it's just an assembly job when we get there... Combination of dietary restrictions and me choosing to do a kind of mezze means there are lots of bits to take!

I went to a girls school until end of gcses. Went mixed for sixth form. All private, on massive scholarships . I actually found it good. Apparently girls do better single sex, boys mixed. A local school combines the two - mixed school but separated for classes. Interesting.

Can't bear the thought of thinking about school. Would love to go private but just don't think we can afford it . However, nursery ids good training you're right!

Doli we're in a fairly similar situation once school age hits. DH and I were both state schooled throughout and have grown up somewhat anti- private education, especially DH whose parents are huge socialists, but all of that seems to change when you have your own doesn't it?

We're bang in the middle of two catchments, one for an excellent and lovely primary and one not so much. If she got into the lovely one we'd probably send her there. As for secondary our local is pretty much always in special measures and has regular stabbings/bottlings/other hideous things so there's no way she's going there. I went to a fairly rough school and spending time being bullied for being bright and hoping you weren't going to get the shit kicked out of you wasn't much fun. We'll probably send her to private secondary unless we move. Our local one is really excellent and I know a few kids that have just finished a levels there and they loved it. They teach some subjects in single sexes and others not but are a mixed sex school so think they strike a good balance. They also have a prep and pre-prep school but I'm hoping we won't need them as our nursery is aces and I don't want to have to deal with term time only education until I have to!

DH always said he'd never sen out child to private school until we had DD, now he says he'll send her to the best school that's available to us and we can afford. We're in the very privileged position that as long as we didn't have more than two and don't want to spend our summers in tropical destinations we probably can afford it.

Now I've written all that and I'm on my phone I can't remember anything else so hi everyone! I'm ill again and pissed off about it as we were supposed to be going for a nice dinner out tonight. Madam is coping well with her broken arm but her hand under the cast stinks!

How long til the cast's gone, Betty?

Rainbow, I meant to tell you, ds has been caught swigging water out of pint glasses. He's surprisingly good at it! Dreading the first smash though, I'm trying to convince him that the TT first cup is better.

Doli that would be my entire weeks wages gone poof. We'd actually struggle to eat if I were to send ds to that nursery full time. We have 3x7 hour days at £30 a pop, and full time would be about £180 a week. I'm dreading having to find that extra £90 for the week in August when he's in full time.

Hmm. Wedding a week away and I'm surprisingly calm. Period here though so I think I'm about to stuff sell with a disgustingly sweet white chocolate magnum followed by slow cooker pulled pork. Slightly nervous about the week ahead, and hoping I've even hands on deck for toddler wrangling while I bake myself into a frenzy and figure out how on earth one makes table numbers that look cool.

Exactly Plonky. That is why she only goes 2 mornings a week. I really can't justify any more than that.

Re table numbers. I can tell you how not to do it . I went to a wedding years ago, where the bride and groom were cuddly toy fans, so every table had a cuddly toy theme. Awkward. DH and I were on the giraffe table. We're both kind of lanky. As was everyone else on said table. I assume it was meant to be either cute or funny but as an idea it bombed.

doli I thought our nursery at £54 a day was expensive. I wasn't too sure if our nursery was good or not as I had nothing to compare it too but looking online and asking friends I sort of know what to measure up to. I take OFSTED reports with a pinch of salt. They don't always show a rounded picture of the establishment.

betty she must be irritable with the cast on. Poor dd. Hope you get better soon as well betty.

I would love ds to go to private education but that would mean no more children. We couldn't afford to put 2 children through private education.

plonky oh wow didn't realise your wedding is only 1 week away. Countdown begins.

Tip from us. If your ds has the dire rear check nappy regularly especially if you are visiting people. We had a situation where the nappy leaked everywhere. Sorry granddad.

plonky well done on the glass! Took DD five months of use to actually break a glass and it was an accidental knock. We do monitor her use at mealtimes though and have taught her to always use two hands, to replace the glass gently on the table once done and then to push away and pull her plate back. The brake was a good teaching opportunity to show her what happens to glass when dropped and now she will sometimes point to her glass, point to the floor and say "no, no, no" - very cute! Can't believe only a week till your wedding! Very exciting!

Private schools are a tricky one. I went to rough local comp and my sister to a super posh private school. We both ended up going to oxbridge and then onto the same kind of job so made no difference in terms of prospects - in fact I got the better degree! Ideally I would love to send DD to private school and we could afford it but when we were buying our new home last year we discussed it at length and ended up moving to an area with relatively good state schools that DD would attend. We decided that for £15k a year (the basic cost of our local private schools at secondary level, excluding all the extras charged) we could offer DD the most amazing additional educational opportunities, trips etc alongside state school education that we would no be able to afford if we sent her private and she would have a far more enhanced and rounded life in general. Plus I hate the idea of school on Saturdays and also witnessed the very narrow exposure my sister had to the variety of people in society which massively skews her world view and I don't want that for DD. But agree it's a difficult one.

Urrgggh. In laws. I can't even rant, I'm too broken by bigotry. I had a wine fuelled lunchtime argument with FIL though. That was fun :)

Nursery here is £56 a day, but that includes all meals and snacks, nappies, and if we want she can be in for 12 hours a day. Not that I can ever imagine that being necessary, but I'm guessing there will be days from September that either a 7am drop off or 7pm pick up will be appreciated. 3 days a week will cost us £670 a month. Not much less than our mortgage. I can sacrifice £124 a month of my salary pre tax for childcare vouchers which will save us a grand total of £600 a year. Cheers Dave.

A toddler we spent yesterday morning with has hfm so I'm hoping that I won't see any tell tale spots anytime soon.

I've used up all my words today trying to explain why it is not ok to say 'all Russians are lazy' and similar genius statements. Problem is, when you're arguing against someone who doesn't think this is their opinion, but is just fact, there aren't enough words to persuade them differently. I ended up just saying 'fine, but if you insist on saying that in front of dd, I will just have to teach her that grandpa talks bollocks'.

Rainbow you make very good points there. Admittedly in many central London areas everyone who possibly can goes private because there are drug and knife problems in the state schools that we in more rural areas can't even begin to imagine. Outside of that, I have found that many of the most successful people I have met are not privately educated. I think having to work that bit harder and do more for yourself can give you an extra drive and hunger. It's just a theory.

I certainly don't want to raise a little madam who believes all she has to do in her life is sit on her over privileged arse until daddy either buys her a house or pops his clogs

My dilemma is more for the early days. The little pre-prep is about the same price as the nursery, but provides wonderful facilities, a whole range of teachers, proper home cooked meals... It seems a bit of a no brainer really.

Oh just remembered I came here to talk about schools. Remember my opinion is tainted by growing up in the SE, and teaching here, and in fact training to teach here.

Primary schools- if you are a half decent parent, the only thing that matters is that your dc is happy there. Forget the academic side, it's very easy to support that at home by reading reading reading reading all the time. It really is that simple. No kids are that bad an influence on your kids before the age of 11 because they don't really get a chance to influence them, so 'roughness' (for want of a better word) shouldn't be a problem. Just ensuring that a primary school fits your child's personality is much more important than what Ofsted say. Some kids thrive in tiny schools, some don't. You'll know well enough by then. I agree though, only send to prep school if you know for certain that you'll send them private for secondary as well, I've never seen a 100% successful move from prep to comp. similar story actually from any 'alternative' schooling at primary transitioning to secondary comprehensive.

Secondary schools are a minefield. Look carefully at how your child will be travelling to school as much as anything else. They will be influenced by kids on the bus as much, if not more, than those in their classes. We live in a nice village, with a very small number of 'rough' teenagers. All those teenagers go to one comp, which is actually very good, and in different circumstances I would send dd there. But I don't want her getting that bus, and I don't want her to be the kid whose mum won't let her get the bus.

If you have a child with learning difficulties, or who is less able, or who is entitled to free school meals, I truly believe the best place for them is the local comp. mostly, they will be in classes as small as in a private school, with substantially better teaching (remember, many teachers in private school have no teaching quals). My DH went to boarding school, he is of average ability academically, and I think it was the worst move possible. If he'd had help with literacy, and had the opportunity to do more practical subjects, he would have done much better than being in a school where traditional academic subjects are pushed and all others ignored. He should have been a plumber or an electrician, not tried to get into banking. He's alright now but his confidence is still shot to pieces from being the 'thick' one (he's not at all!)

Girls do better academically at girls schools. I went to a selective state girls school. We were completely obsessed with boys, sometimes to the detriment of all other things. More eating disorders, self harming, anxiety and stress than you would ever imagine. That might have been because of the pressure of academia as much as anything else, I don't know. That says, if dd turns out to be a certain kind of girl, I'll probably try to get her in to one.

I genuinely believe though, that if you've got a local comprehensive which is Ofsted good or outstanding, that is absolutely the best place for most children. But then, as my FIL has pointed out, I'm a dangerous lefty type...

Gerry thank you, that was a very helpful post, and I'd personally pin you as intelligent and informed about the subject rather than leftie. Much to think about

rainbow i gave water in a glass to ds, he just put his hand in it playing around. He can drink from it but loves playing and being messy more.

I completely concur with everything Gerry said about girls schools, and with kids being put under too much pressure at private schools.

And with rainbow too. As a kid we had too many holidays missed, the money that could have otherwise been spent enriching our family life was sucked out by school and I travelled 20 miles each way for all of high school. I got on my bus at 7.15am and got home at 6pm. On the other hand I got quite good at entertaining myself on long journeys and used the time to do my homework. And my parents found it quite cheap to send me to uni.

My fears of being the daddy's girl Doli talks of are quite real, but I know many others who are waaaay more privileged. Gerry is also bang on with the eating disorders and boy mad nesses that go on in single sex, pressured environments. I know FIVE girls who did stints in clinics.

Stupid neighbour's orrible yappy dog is yappity yapping away and all they're doing is yelling at it. The same neighbour who managed to set our fence on fire a few years ago. I can't friggin wait to start house hunting!

Doli I agree with everyone else that if you were planning to keep DD in pre prep and then prep it'd be a hard transition to comp but pre-prep to state primary, not so much. If pre-prep would be a nursery/pre-school alternative rather than an introduction into private education I think you could still go anywhere after that and if it's a better fit for you all as a family at the moment then go for it, it sounds lovely.