November 2012 - Bring on the summer fun

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2096331-November-2012-All-our-babies-are-18-months-where-has-the-time-gone

I have two older brothers and have always been a Tom-boy. I hate dresses with a passion, just don't get the shoes and handbag thing, and never wear make-up. I admit I have worried at times that J could be picked on for being more girly, having got two big sisters, but he is a thug at heart, and has DD2 as a role model.

One of my friends almost promoted pink tutu wearing for her boy, and I remember when he first started school he wore his favourite fancy dress costume to a party and was ribbed to an extent that it is still affecting him, and other's views of him, and his mum. The outfit was Upsy Daisy.

I know I am not particularly PC in my views. I am not an overt feminist, but strive for equity. I want to prepare my children for the real world, but will accept them whatever they choose, once they are big enough to understand consequences.

I agree with girls being taught how to keep themselves safe from abuse, but that applies to boys too. Boys and men are also subjected to sexual violation, and society reacts very differently. The damage is just as dreadful, but males are less likely to access the support. I have seen this in both my work and my private life. Sadly we live in a world with some horrible people in it and we need to protect our wee boys too.

I had a Sindy doll, and a Jenny doll. I pulled their legs off. I am a teddy girl.

I too had Sindy.

I have concerns about feminism, I have to be honest. Probably because of my experiences. I feel sometimes that it has gone too far down the see saw and tipped the equalibrium a bit. My problem being is that now society expects the world of Women. You need to be hot successful career woman, working all hours, whilst being supermum raising perfect kids, with an immaculate home, baking and running a stall at the school fete with one hand and delivering a report with the other while keeping your marriage going with one foot and caring for ill or aging parents with the other foot. I don't know about you but that is all just a tad stressful for me. And I did get to breaking point with it all when my marriage broke down. I can't be that modern woman it is too much for me.

I want my girls to have opportunities and choices and I want them to be able to prioritise what is best for them and apply themselves to it. And I want them to be happy. I think we a starting by not sending them to every single club going and ensuring that they focus on just a couple of things.

So my version of feminism is that we have choice, and I am no less a successful or intelligent woman because I choose to stay at home and be a mummy, and maybe even join the PTA (but I will tell you about that later)

One girl does pink and is so conscious of what she wears, one just wears what is put out for her and likes blues and greens. They are both being brought up in the same way.

My house guests leave today. A little sad as I hadn't seen then for so long and it will be a while before I see them again, but nice to get my home back and have a normal length day!

wishes I had time to contribute more to this thread
But couldn't agree more with the above posts..VQ and Wanda

I don't think its feminist to force women to juggle all those balls. Feminism originally was about equality of opportunity, reward and equal valuing of women. Its capitalism and politicians that ran with the idea because they saw the financial benefits of households with two wage earners, two tax payers, more consumption and vast mortgages. We have gone too far - women have to do all that they traditionally did as well as the traditional male breadwinner. But its sad we blame other women and feminism for this - rather than the (still) male dominated system which excuses men from doing their fair share domestically. Feminism has never been in charge of politics, banking or business - that would be men. Who've used the vague notion of 'feminism' (something they never believed in) to pass pro big business policies which deep down don't give a rats ass about women but which are all to do with money. I'm sad that so many young women are afraid to call themselves feminist because they think it'll put men off them!

To quote the wonderful Caitlin Moran "We need to reclaim the word feminism. We need the word feminism back real bad. When statistics come in saying only 42% of British women would describe themselves as feminist I think - what do you ladies think feminism is? - what part of 'liberation for women' is not for you? Freedom to vote? The right not to be owned by the man you marry? Equal pay? Vogue by Madonna? Jeans? Did all that good shit just get on your nerves? Or were you just drunk at the time of the survey?"

I'm not a woman hater, I value traditional female roles its because I'm so proud to be a woman that I'm a feminist.

But wanda what you described isn't feminism. The having it all and being good at everything isn't feminism at all. Feminism is equality and choice, that's all. Neither of which we have yet.

I agree vq re abuse and men btw. My only experience, to my knowledge, is with girls and women as victims, and having only girls, obviously my main concern.

Cross post. yw put it far better than me.

I admit I do not have a terribly good grasp of what feminism means

Is someone supports racism, they are a racist = a bad thing
If someone supports sexism, they are sexist = a bad thing
If someone supports ageism, they are ageist = a bad thing
If someone supports feminism, they are a feminist =

I must admit I thought feminism was all Girl Power, women are superior kind of stuff. I didn't know it meant equality, and I consider myself to be an intelligent person.

It's just wanting to live in a world where you will never be treated as inferior for being a woman. Where you will never be blamed as a victim of a man's crime (dv, sexual assault, whatever). Where if you want to work you will be able to handle childcare. And if you don't want to work you will not be treated like a sub standard person (sahm). Likewise if a man chooses to be a sahd then he should not have to expect to meet with ridicule, or be treated as a somehow lesser man due to his wife being the breadwinner.

The ism bit suggests action. Activist. Extremity. I am all for what you both describe as feminism, but I don't think that is how most people understand it, so yes, there is a need to reclaim and define the term.

At the beginning there was a lot of activism. For the vote, equal pay (ha!).

Ah see I see an activist as a good thing! And I'm an environmentalist - not all words ending in 'ist' are bad. I blame the 80s and the 2 Ronnie's (remember the worm that turned sketch?) and other bloke popular culture for the misconception today of what feminism is.

yw /pr you are right! I had never looked at it that way before. And yes, I think feminism is about have the opportunity and the choice.

I have my house back and the sun is shining. Quiet day with boys.

And what I would really like to do is sit on the toilet in peace. Roll on nap time.

We've just put four IKEA bekvam spice racks on J's wall. Ideal toddler book shelves as shown on this website defogitall.com/wp-content/uploads/ikea-spice-rack-birch-bird-vintage-home-interiors-blog-archive-organization-23612.jpg et voila a grand total of a tenner! £30 in total with the wee poang to create a little reading area.

Sorry for ranting! Its a real soapbox of mine to reclaim the word feminist so today's women are proud to declare they are one without wincing about what blokes or other women might think of them. Feminism is nothing to do with the 80s caricature of buzz cut, boot wearing man hating. Unless you want to have a buzz cut and wear boots. I hate seeing young lasses being all blokey one of the lads "oh shag me and don't call I'm cool with that (not!) I daren't appear needy by asking for more" because they're so scared of appearing feminist.

And I'm a realist, idealist, pragmatist, environmentalist, feminist, former archaeologist. Don't be scared of words ending in 'ist' VQ

I agree that bloke culture has stolen what feminism was about. Feminism isn't about hating men. It's not even about trying to pretend that women are the same as or better than men. It's about not accepting that we are inferior, not accepting being treated as lesser, not accepting to be put in a box and told to stay in our place.

For me things like choice around childbirth, pain relief, breastfeeding are all feminist issues.

I hate the way the media pits women against women all the time, encouraging us not to trust each other. It makes me worry for my daughters, living in a world where they are taught to aspire to the impossible and still they will be belittled by men and hated by other women.

I love it when you go all blustocking yw, you know why (I think)

Those spice tacks are inspired. I might do that in the play room rather than buy an expensive front facing bookshelf which I have been coveting.

I used to be a boot wearing, man hating buzz cut

Wanda I love it when you call me bluestocking!

Perfectly said YW.

I identify as a feminist. And some other 'ists' too. Before I ever gave it much thought I would have said I'm not one, but as time has gone on I have more understanding of the reclaimed meaning (which I really believe in) and less fear of being labelled. It also helps that as time goes on and I grow into really being me and refuse to give a fuck about what people think I am more capable of both dealing with any reaction which is a bit negative and owning my views and seeing it as a chance to explain the reclaimation (is that a word?) of the word feminist.

For example, all trainees in my dept are fortunate enough to get me as a sort of mentor . This means that in addition to various other things I do for their development, they all get a very rowsing, eve of battle st Crispins day / Marius in Les Mis passionate speech little speech at an appropriate time with variation but basically on how they should make themselves stand out etc. For female trainees there is usually a discussion of some feminist issues. The first time my boss heard me really get into it (with an interested but slightly eye-rolling male trainee) he laughed and said to him "watch out, Zamboni will have you burning your bra too!" In time gone by my reaction would have been to deny being feminist but I just smiled and said yes, what kind of person doesn't want equality between the sexes?

BTW I have a great relationship with him so no issues with what he said.

But there is definitely a bloke-ified perception of the word and I think many people labour under that understanding and don't want to be identified with or as that meaning.

I really need to finish thatCaitlin Moran book. I kept putting it down at about 20 pages in. I don't click with her writing style, though I do agree with what she says.