November 2012 - Spring is here, time to get our babies out and about.

[StuntNun]

Apart from the 'down under' contingent anyway!

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2011361-November-2012-Walking-or-not-walking-talking-or-not-talking-any-other-skillz

I think the recommendation here is no milk til 3 as that is when the gut is fully mature.

I would definitely allow my two's organs to be used. I know a little boy born with a genetic kidney issue, something quite rare but can't remember the name. He is almost 3 and they controlled it so that he would be ready for a transplant at 10kg. This took ages as his issue meant weight gain was vvv slow, but he got there at about 2. So he's reasy and still waiting. But for organ transplants for little people they need little organs to a certain extent and it is a long wait and there have been some v scary moments and will be more until they find him a match :(

Pikz we're the same here - teething off dairy means one waking maybe two if it's cutting and back to sleep quick with calpol. On dairy we see him hourly. Anyone left with a sleep dodger - the message seems to be cut down on dairy and you won't have to sleep train! Wonders why all the many baby sleep books don't mention this oh yes because there'd be no need for these books!!!!

a food allergy is antibody-mediated which means your body produces antibodies to the allergen. Each antibody fits incredibly specifically to only one part of the allergen. So if you imagine the protein in cows milk is a 1000-piece jigsaw with all white pieces. Then imagine one piece somewhere in the jigsaw is red and that represents an antibody. You can see that the antibody piece can only fit into the jigsaw at one position and that represents the antibody binding to the allergen. In the body when an antibody binds to something it signals other immune system cells which is what causes the reaction.

Someone who doesn't have such a strong reaction to cows milk maybe he has 10 red pieces/antibodies. But YW's J reacts very strongly so maybe he has 100 red pieces/antibodies.

Now when cows milk is processed then the protein molecule is broken down. So for yoghurt imagine throwing away half of the white pieces so the jigsaw is all full of holes. You can picture that there may now be some red pieces/antibodies that can't join up/bind to any white pieces any more. So this corresponds to a weaker reaction by the body towards the allergen. Then in cheese say you throw away another half of the remaining white pieces, i.e. the protein is broken down further into smaller pieces. Then there may not be any white pieces for the red pieces/antibodies to join to and there won't be a reaction to the protein. So that's why some people can't drink milk but can take yogurt or cheese.

The difference between allergy and intolerance is that allergy is IgE-mediated and IgE antibodies provoke an allergic response. Whereas intolerance is IgG-mediated and IgG antibodies produce the same kind of immune response as to an invading bacteria or virus. So IMO food intolerance is more akin to a mild case of food poisoning.

I hope that makes some kind of sense. I can add a more technical description of the jigsaw idea if anyone's interested.

Morning all

Had a fun date last night. On my way to work now. Was very very hard to leave O, having only seen him for an hour all weekend and half an hour this morning. He was in such a wonderful mood this morning - funny, happy and cheeky. Please tell me it gets easier to leave them every morning?

Thanks stunt. The akin to a small bout of food poising when he has large quantities in one go is exactly what it's like here. Luckily for me this means it's very mild and just triggered by big quantities.

YW I am just so thankful for all of you lot or we and L would still be suffering for no reason

Chasing it does. Wait til you go to pick him up and this excited mummmeeee and he runs for a cuddle. Best bit of my day!

stunt That makes sense. Thank you. So it is possible that E could tolerate a small amount of moo milk say in cooking cheese sauce but not drinking a bottle full of it. She doesn't like eating cheese unless it's mixed up in food. Yogurt is fine. Egg i'm not sure, she has had scrambled egg and quiche but at the same time as she was having cows milk as a drink. She hasn't had cows milk since Saturday morning and she is absolutely fine now. She ate her breakfast and drank her similac milk with no problems. Of course it could all be a coincidence and she could have had a tummy bug, DD1 had been complaining of one last week. I'm going to call my dietician today. I'm amazed at how little information there is on the Internet. I bow down to those with such knowledge in this area.

Stunt that is a great description. L's was definitely an intolerance (he was allergy tested) and it was his tummy that reacted, causing all sorts of pain, wind and gut issues - which makes so much sense in your description. I suspect it was a moderate rather than severe case but it was awful to see him in such distress every time he fed or pooed. If it hadn't been so imperative that he put on weight quickly we could have carried on bf or tried different formulas but I'm glad my GP took it seriously and put him straight on Nutramigen as it was what he needed at the time.

He is now doing well on cows milk and dairy in all forms which is a relief. We were doing half & half with Nutramigen (after periods of testing with cooked and smaller amounts) but have phased it out in the last couple of weeks with no ill effects. I hope the same becomes true of all the CMPI/A babies, YW's dairy challenges sound very hopeful.

Oooh I love explanations like that stunt - nice and visual. I've never been very good at science, medical and maths stuff but am interested in them and love love love it when scientists give context to something which to most of us is too abstract to grasp, like that one.

You should be a science teacher! It was science teachers who couldn't make science come to life and explain it properly that put me off it.

I learned more from Bill Bryson's History of Nearly Everything than I ever did at school, and was very fortunate that the year I did my GCSEs the dual science marking scheme was 55% for an A* as rote learning direct from the original syllabus teachers use got me through it with zero knowledge of application of any of the knowledge.

Eliza if it's a food intolerance rather than a food allergy then it is dose-dependent so you may find E can take e.g. half and half cows milk and formula milk, or could have a yoghurt so long as she hasn't had milk that day. Unfortunately experiment is the only way to find out and as the symptoms are delayed and can last for a couple of days it might be tricky to find out just what is okay. If it is a food allergy then it needs to be avoided entirely.Incidentally when a product says 'may contain' that means that it shouldn't contain the allergen but they aren't ruling out the possibility of cross contamination. So a sensitive individual might be able to eat some products marked 'may contain' but not others depending on the level of cross contamination. It really is a minefield. My DH is allergic to crustaceans and he's been caught out quite a few times. Fortunately he doesn't go into anaphylactic shock but it's still very unpleasant for him when he unexpectedly finds e.g. half a prawn in a sandwich.

Can't remember who posted but yep my j was allergy tested (skin pricked) and found to have an allergy to milk, eggs and peanuts. He has never eaten any of these things himself as we found out he was allergic when he was still exclusively breastfed. It's this that worries me greatly as he may go into anaphylaxis if he ever did ingest any of them yet we don't have an epipen as they are only deemed necessary if a reaction has already occurred. We go a fortnights holiday in May and it's an all inclusive hotel, what the hell do I feed him?!?

Stunt that's a really really helpful explanation of the reaction. Any thoughts on this (as a biochemist) - I've been chatting with my sister and she's now dairy trialling her daughter directly and she seems to cope with dairy traces directly better than in BM. I wonder if me and my sister had CMPI as babies (sadly we can't ask my Mum but I know we failed to thrive, were teeny tiny and had such bad 'colic' / sleeplessness that my Dad did a runner for three months) and whether our guts were damaged and we now process dairy as adults in such a way as to make it less tolerable for babies in BM is passing on more red pieces?

Either way, a tin of nutramigen is coming in my hospital bag for baby two just in case he / she needs a bit of formula before BF. The paed reckons J would never have been so bad without his initial exposure to cow's milk in formula.

It depends what she's giving them YW since a food stating 'may contain dairy traces' is quite likely not to contain dairy. I don't know much about the manufacture of bm in the body I'm afraid. I'll post a more technical description of the antibody-allergen reaction later on today for any interested folks. I love biochemistry... can you tell?!

That is interesting YW as I was wondering if J was so bad because he didn't have any formula. Both girls had formula, albeit about 10mls.

J slept all night in his cot, and is at Nursery. He was so so happy to be there and I was so so happy to leave him there, so YES it does get easier Chasing x

I am glad you said nice things about Shetland YW. I was concerned you would say I was being totally daft going even further away from Mainland.

Oh god no VQ Shetland has a far better mix of remote and modern - the oil money from the terminal at Sullem Voe has been kept in council hands and they have done amazing things with it. It's also allowed a lot of young Shetlanders to stay on the islands so you don't have the 'pensioner' vibe that you get on Orkney. Because it's further away fruit and veg gets air freighted so you don't get the bruised and nearly off stuff like you got on Orkney. Even though it's further away - it's less remote because of this investment (though the ferry crossing is brutal - the waters by Fair Isle can be super rough and you can be delayed for hours - so best to fly with children!). Shetland also feels even more Nordic and 'other' and exciting but you can actually find the day to day things you need in the shops. I love Shetland. We are considering a camper van holiday there this summer. And the knitwear. Man the knitwear rocks. Only downside is that it doesn't have it's own distillery. If DH were doing more work for oil and gas rather than renewables we would happily have ended up in Shetland. And in terms of the medical profession you have all of the advantages of Orkney. I am sure it's idiosyncratic in its own way - all island communities are but if I were to pick an island group to settle on I think it would be Shetland. And in terms of weather, even though it's further north it's not really any worse than Orkney. Both count as 'sub arctic archipelagos' - ditch your summer wardrobe accordingly! Can you tell I'm freelancing today and wittering?

Shetland looks amazing. I have been googling instead of translating I really want to live on an island. Maybe if Scotland go independent Salmon can do something useful while waiting to be let in to the EU and turn some of the islands into nice little tax havens that would need my kind of expertise and fill them with companies that won't phone my last employer for a reference . :o

Thanks stunt, wil read that to dh later as he's likely to understand it more with that explanation than with my witterings.

Am having snuggle time on the sofa with little pig, whilst dh starts cooking tonights roast. Am enjoying his new found chefness It's been a week since I last cooked

F woke at 4. She hadn't seen me since midmorning, and dh had put her to bed. I dispatched dh to settle her, but she kept shrieking and pointing at our bedroom door The grin on her face when she saw me was awesome. Needless to say, dh got kicked out of bed

Love hearing about life in farflung places. Given that I feel the cold even down here, I suspect I wouldn't be cut out for the wilds of Shetland or similar.

Hope everyone is having a good day so far, fc this week fares better than the last. Chasing particularly, I hope work is treating you well and you are enjoying the adult company.

Today I am mostly being easily annoyed.

I have accidentally sent for appointments with the same 10 children as I have already seen twice before. They dutifully turn up every time.

Groundhog day

Argh......that is all.

r is thankfully back to normal and being exceptionally cute and(see fb)

do they wee less as they get older? the last few days I've gone to change his Nappy and it's sometimes dry (change x3 per day) but it'll be drenched at the next change and he drinks plenty. is it a toddler thing or something to worry about?

Thanks stunt . I'm pretty sure she has an intolerance to cows milk but not sure in what form. I spoke to the dietician who said the formula milk she is on has cmp in it. But there are babies who can have small doses of cmp but when given in cows milk they can be intolerant to it. She said it's because of the way it's processed. So her advice is to leave pure cows milk out of E's diet and to introduce UHT whole milk in a couple of days as although this is cows milk to has been processed and sterilised so the protein isn't as harsh. Today she hasn't done a nasty runny poo whereas when she was on cows milk she'd already done 3 of the buggers by mid morning. I'll try UHT from Thursday but I will keep a food diary too which should help me refer back as I can never remember what she had a couple of days ago.

pp glad R is back to fine form.

pass I love the film groundhog day but sorry you are experiencing it.

Pidj I was wondering that. When J was small he was like a mouse - seemingly peeing constantly, now he seems to be able to hold it for long periods and has a few big wees a day and as you say sometimes I go to change his nappy and its dry. I guess they are getting more and more mature in their bladder control?

Flouncey oh no! What's up?

Today I am happily writing up some chapters for an environmental impact assessment for a wind farm. It's a good design in a good location so I do hope it passes planning. I feel very productive when I'm working on something real like this that might actually get built and do some good in the world, rather than when I am working on mind bending theoretical policy stuff for wanky clients. The sunshine helps too!

Yes I think it is to do with bladder control. I mean, we don't wee constantly well we didn't before popping out babies and they are coming up to 18mo which is when a lot of people start toilet training so I guess the bladder is getting strong now. I suppose like muscles maybe as newborns it is very weak and builds up strength with time. Anyway I meant to say it is completely normal, whereas it wouldn't have been a year ago.

yw I thought of you the other day. There is a castle we sometimes visit in France which is right on the border with Germany and has a stunning view into Germany (google Malbrouck if you want a squizz). Anyway the local German council have built a huge windfarm right next to it completely ruining the view which has infuriated the French side of the border so they're going to build one further up the border to spoil a spectacular German view in retaliation.

I would guess that the German windfarm is in retaliation for the nuclear power station about 15km upwind (near our house actually) which has been there for years but pisses off the Lux and German local gov'ts no end as the steam blows down river straight over there border areas.

Anyway you'll be pleased to know that wind farms are breeding like bunnies here in good old Franco-German border disputes :o

This is what it looks like now: scroll down it's the picture of the castle apparently 7 almost 200m high, and possibly more planned.