November 2012 - Spring is here, time to get our babies out and about.

[StuntNun]

Apart from the 'down under' contingent anyway!

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2011361-November-2012-Walking-or-not-walking-talking-or-not-talking-any-other-skillz

Yep, I like the second and third ones Lily.

Just cancelled my claims to benefits - very satisfying if a little scary

Lily I love the second one! I'd have a kitchen like that myself!

Pikz great news on the follow on milk! Yey for sleeping babies - boo to nasty moo cows. So many of the sleep avoiders seem to be reacting to cow's milk. I'm sorry that others have had to go through this but I'm also selfishly a bit chuffed that I am not imagining the whole CMPI reaction.

I was chatting with my Dad (the son of a one time dairy farmer) about CMPI last night. He was very sceptical about allergies and intolerances ("didn't have it in my day" etc) when the first of my cousin's kids was diagnosed four years ago. But now seeing that all 9 cousins of the current generation have it (some of them much worse than Jonas i.e. failing to thrive to the point they didn't even double in weight in the first year), he is finally remembering his mother's stories about how none of him and his three siblings slept through (unless she let them scream for 4+ hours at a time) . Of course in those days they just used to park the pram at the far end of the garden so you couldn't hear the baby crying. So the uptick in diagnosis today seems quite likely to be reporting bias to some degree and a change in parenting where we are more likely to view crying for hours at a time as abnormal. Certainly the concept of not giving cow's milk to babies was utterly alien to everyone back in the 60s, I suppose in some poorer socioeconomic groups today - the concept that milk could be bad still does not compute; but other sections of society are more open to the idea that actually we're not designed to consume it and it can hurt some people.

Jonas' paed has always said to us that once you get past one if a baby has to cry for more than an hour to go to sleep (except when ill or teething) - they are in pain from a food reaction and his money is first and foremost on dairy. The change in behaviour and sleep is something we've witnessed so many times with dairy trails that I don't doubt it now (but I confess I thought my sister was mad when she noticed it with her kids).

Jonas is a whinging sleep avoider when exposed to dairy. But give him more than a fortnight from his last exposure - and he sleeps through, has solid poos, has lost his persistent cough, has much improved eczema and is a happy little soul even when teething. Given how badly he's reacted this last trial, I think I'm not going to try him again until he's two. We've tried to gradually add traces to his diet but at present he just can't cope with it. I'd love him to be a normal eater but frankly I need sleep too much - not least being preggers. I am not willing to do CIO or CC when I suspect he's in pain - if I can remove the allergen that is causing him pain - I'd rather do that. It does make me cross that more HV don't suggest it to Mums of 'colicky' babies but instead push folks straight down the sleep training route.

Gunky , definitely not hunky

I like the 3rd one lily

I was speaking to someone from CAMHS yesterday vq who was telling me that they used to get special early retirement dispensation because of the intensity of the work. I know what you mean about resenting time spent as well - completely understandable if you have three sick littlies.

P does not like moo milk. It makes her gag. Not surprised as I don't like it either. She will take it 50/50 with her formula but sometimes only after a fuss. I wouldn't mind at all but she still takes a fair amount of milk. We might need to start buying formula if she doesn't reduce volume soon.

It's funny YW I never considered it as we had no reaction to anything and it was only once I went to full huge bottle of cows milk we got no sleep and It still took me 3 weeks and listening to all of you and help from VQ to work it out.

Very glad I have. He's a happier boy.

I suppose given that only the most sensitive babies detect it in breast milk and processed dairy goods, and that most formula shortens the protein chains down to make it more easily digestible - it's only at the transition to cow's milk as a drink that mild CMPI is noticeable. If you've not had problems thus far there'd be no reason to suspect it. I'm so glad you've got your happy wee man back and on the plus side it sounds like his is only mild so he should outgrow it early. The difference in them is amazing isn't it. On a dairy trail you'd be forgiven for thinking that Jonas is a right whinge he really gets on my tits bad Mummy. But off it, he is hard as nails and never cries or whinges even when he falls off really high things . It makes me feel sad that that must mean that dairy really hurts his tummy .

Personally though I adore the stuff and am counting down til our scan date and I can wean him. I'm not going to wean him if the scan reveals a blighted ovum or missed MC or other problem but if all is healthy with baby 2 then one of my first actions post last feed will be to eat a whole easter egg. Even though it's not yet Easter. They do say that food intolerances in adulthood often display as a real love or loathing for the food that caused you a problem as a child. So maybe my dairy obsession isn't just because I've been off the stuff for 15 months......

Ok that last post makes it sound like I let him play on really high things all of the time.... I don't... but he is a bugger of a climber!

I've noticed that since giving E 50/50 similac milk and cows milk her poos have been atrocious. Massive, runny and smelly. yuck. could this be her tummy getting used to the cows milk. On the plus side she doesn't appear to be constipated anymore which she used to suffer from. In fact her diet has changed quite a bit since you all gave me advice on my fb post.

Thanks for ear wax feed back. Glad it's not just E.

pr sounds like you have a lovely day lined up for DD1 tomorrow. I hope she is fully fit enough to enjoy it.

Thank you Sophia for your comment about HV. I am too scarred by the problems I had with J to be able to consider that as a career now.

There is a promotion post in Orkney too I have been wanting to move to the islands for a long time so I just HAVE to try for that one

Pass are you not wanting to keep her on Nutrimigen? I am guessing not if she no longer needs it.

I feel sad for J. I allow him things with 'may contain traces of' in. Perhaps I shouldn't but it is hard enough avoiding soya and milk products as it is. Thoughts YW? and your wee Wellies will be just fine, all three of them

VQ I allow Jonas stuff that is made in a factory that handles dairy, and occasionally stuff that may contain traces. But to be honest, if he has too much of even trace stuff his sleep goes to shit. But then he reacts to traces in my diet so he is super sensitive and by no means all CMPI babies would react to that small a dose. Awkward wee sod.

As for your J, if sleep or mucus is still an issue - maybe try to restrict trace dairy / soy stuff to once or twice a week and see if there is an improvement. They do say that keeping traces in their diet theoretically helps them to get over it quicker hence I really wanted to reintroduce trace dairy before I weaned but its making him so unhappy, tired and sore of bum and throat, I've given up for now - he might get over it slower but his quality of life and health are much higher without it in his diet.

I've found lots of treats he can have that are dairy and soy (even trace) free. Jelly is his absolute favourite. And for Easter we have got him some hollow plastic eggs that you can fill with treats of your choice - so that he can have easter eggs with his cousins. I'm going to fill them with Haribo starmix and Tesco's prawn cocktail shells as he loves those as an occasional naughty treat. Otherwise he is going to mug his cousin's for their eggs. My sister has got him a Moo dairy free Easter egg. It contains soy leceithins but they contain so no actual soy protein so he doesn't react.

And VQ I could think of noone better than you to be a HV to my quintuplets.

I would really really want you to be my HV vq , I also think a move to the islands would be just enviable.

of a potential move to Orkney and yes, you would be a fabulous HV.

I wonder why the NHS is so set on cows' milk being OK until 1 when over here I was very frowned at for suggesting I try it at age 1 and told to wait until mine were 3. The paed said I coudl possibly start mixing it in with formula at 18 mo with DD1 but as it is she is still on ff. LO I haven't even tried on cows' milk.

I thought it was French thing about protecting French makers of FF at the beginning after everything I read on MN about the evils of the FF companies but my paed is in Lux and they don't have a FF industry to protect.

Even if the reaction in a lot of kids is mild surely they should flag it up as an issue for babies with problems once it is introduced?

VQ if you want any advice on Orkney or connections to folks living there and with experience of working in the healthcare system - let me know. From living there and having J on the island I know that every healthcare worker we met reveled in the fact that they could do their job to the best of their abilities without being hampered by targets, crazy management and insufficient staffing. The levels of staffing on the island are high due to how remote it is - it has to be a health service of last resort as sometimes the weather is just too shit to move folks off island - therefore the patient experience and that of front line staff is much happier.

Work aside I think the climate and the remoteness can make it a very hard place to live in terms of quality of life. You have to accept that you'll only see off island family maybe once a year. Travel sooth is either v expensive on the plane (£300 per person to Edinburgh) or very slow and painful (the overnight ferry to Aberdeen shudder) and whilst exciting at first the novelty wears off quick.

As for the weather it is amazingly exciting but when you have weeks when you literally can't leave the house for fear of the car door being ripped off then you can feel massive cabin fever.

There really isn't much in the way of baby and child activities as the population is massively skewed toward the elderly and retired. Food and eating out also very much caters for older tastes - think meat and two veg and a slight 1970s feel to every restaurant. There are no decent Chinese restaurants, one OK pizza place and a slightly ropey Indian on the island. If you like takeaways and eating out it's not the place for you.

Also the scale of the islands means that you will literally know every nook and cranny within weeks of being there - I found doing the same activities again and again, not having new places etc to explore, a bit dull in the end. We used to go nuts as soon as we were off island reveling in all of the food and fun activities we couldn't do on the islands.

That said, I found it a very easy place to make friends and still am in touch and regularly see good pals from the island, it is a very funny and pleasantly odd place (the locals call it Craggy Island!); housing is super cheap (energy and transport bills are sky high to counterbalance this!), it is a very, very beautiful place (when the cloud lifts) and the wildlife is just unprecedented. If you want to get into outdoor living, walking, canoeing, cycling etc it's great. If you want to learn what's really important to you then it is a great place to strip it all back to basics and find out.

For us we found that our priorities were to have family close by, having sunny days warm enough to go out without a coat (we had one day warmer than 15C when we lived there - the wind chill is unbelievable) and having access to both beautiful countryside and modern urban facilities meant we were happier back south. Orkney was too 'either / or' for us. I do love it though and am v glad that Jonas is an Orcadian.

Right I've been wittering too much - a good freelancing day eh? Time to get the bear xxx

Oh and every shop slaps a massive 'transport cost surcharge' onto everything that comes up from south meaning that the cost of living is very expensive and your fruit and veg is old and manky when it arrives or bruised as hell if it's been a rough crossing. Growing your own isn't feasible - a friend literally watched the wind rip up her carrot crop. It's taking the piss when the wind rips up a root crop .

Sounds like a wonderful experience.

Thanks for the advice. I've put a very thin layer of Metanium on and left it for a bit before putting nappy on.

Wrote that hours ago and it didn't send.

VQ I hope you find something job-wide soon. Surely you deserve some piece of amazing good fortune to come your way.

Chasing that is lovely about O.

No need so no prescription vq. Not that our GP has ever raised a concern but I would feel bad.

And I wish you had been my HV.

P is currently eating mince pie. With a fork. Nothing if not proper.

sophia has af arrived??

Yes Soph has it?

Shucks guys Thank you for your lovely comments

Orkney sounds both dream and nightmare YW. Thank you for your honesty

J is a very poorly boy. Off to the Dr for him tomorrow. I am wondering if it is hand foot and mouth, but there is nothing in his mouth, or in his feet. Rash is everywhere else though. He looks awful

No it hasn't

At the moment I am thinking it must be the start of 40s nightmare periods which the go did warn me about and giving a nice cold rise. Tomorrow I will POAS just to rule it out.

Gp and rose.