March 2013 - gurgles, giggles and going on holiday (for some of us at least!)

[pudtat]

Will this do? Never started a thread before so hope this works...

previous thread

Morning all. Hope you get a lie in later Eig and Pud to make up for the broken night. Hopefully your two tiddlers will take up a more mum friendly schedule soon, and are busy planning really calm collected teenage years as compensation for you.

Last day of my parent's visit and my DH's holiday today, so back to the same old same old tomorrow. I'm going to miss the organised chaos that is my family when they go. Despite being in their 70s they are completely hyper and feel the need to rush about madly doing stuff every second of the day to avert the dreaded boredom. I'm kind of hoping I have half their energy at the same age and am already plotting many ways of driving the worselet up the wall for amusement like

Did another national trust place yesterday.... it's becoming quite a habit. Batemans this time, which is lovely in a spooky gothic kind of way. For the car nuts amongst you (long shot.... I'm guessing there probably aren't many) Kipling's old Roller is on show, the the AC club had a meet in the car park which had DH dribbling all over the floor. Why do men love cars? I don't get it. OK so I can appreciate the finer points of a rather beautiful sleek classic, but some of the 1970s efforts with their ugly great radiator grills and square corners..... why?????

eig I think it's a fairly normal feeling re bf.

Plus some babies are easier than others.
Dd1 was easy , dd3 had tongue tie so was v slow but not messy or flaily, ds is the hardest to feed out as he flails and has reflux and poos mid feed noisily so everyone looks at us I think I have the advantage of knowing it gets less intense so can power on.

Don't worry, Eig, you're not the only one still doing the silly o'clock feeds. I really miss the days (all three of them) when DD slept through. These days we have two options for nights: she wakes around 10, 1, and 4; or she wakes around 11, 2, and 5. Used to do 11 and 3 or 4 - I miss those days too! I just don't tend to be online during those feeds. It's roll out of bed and down to the kitchen, milk in microwave while I pee, upstairs and feed in her cot, up for a burp while she stares at the curtains, and back down she goes, at which point I go back to bed. And I refuse to get up at 6am these days. She gets fed in bed and told to go back to sleep.

The hospital I was at didn't actually promote breastfeeding particularly. Possibly because we're a very deprived city, and there's a link between socioeconomic status and tendency to breastfeed; there's likely a higher than average number of mothers here who bottle feed right from the off. I was asked if I was breastfeeding and said I'd give it a go, and some woman started mauling my boob and shoved it in DD's mouth, and that was it really. Ood's right about the lack of properly trained people to help though - had I had someone around all night helping me to get her latched on properly rather than being left to my own devices, we might have managed rather better.

pud sounds like yours is on a similar night pattern to mine. We get between three and five hours before the first feed and then the gaps get progressively smaller by an hour each time. Frustrating, isn't it?

Going to be a knackering day here today - the man's finally back at work so I'm going to be all on my own. Fingers crossed me and DD don't get bored of each other too quickly.

Gah! I wrote a such a lovely long post and it got swallowed.

Ood what's the longest you've breastfed any of your kids?

Experience seems to be key. I'd have leapt at the opportunity to meet a bf coordinator. We stayed in hospital for 3 days of obs after ds's birth. We had lots of problems with feeding and I constantly asked for help but clearly the staff on the ward were not qualified or experienced enough to help. One suggested tongue tie then disappeared, and soon after we found those red dehydratey crystals in ds's nappy. So a hca poured some formula into him ;) ridiculous. Later that night when DS was cluster feeding I panicked, not knowing what was going on. A midwife told me he was just using me for comfort, but I now know he was trying to stimulate my supply and it was normal. Her recourse? Formula. It's like they expect a certain amount of failure so acquiesce early on instead of giving you support. I can't blame, they're under qualified and over stretched.

Worse I'd love to be an energetic croney, showing up at ds's family home and getting in his grill. Yes! That's a retirement plan.

Pud excellent thread. Had a good soak in the tub with a glass of red while I read it, lovely!

Today I have to attempt to take a photo suitable for ds's passport. Ha! That'll be good when he's five and an immigration officer has to look at a photo of a fat four month old. Hopefully I can get him to stay still, without sucking his hand or a dummy for long enough to take a picture. Thankfully I am able to dedicate my entire day to this.

Yy Stormy, being left did not help us at all. When they occasionally dared to respond to the buzzer it was to briefly watch him feed and everyone had a different opinion. We needed an expert.

Ooh Leni I meant to ask - does moving into your own place mean you can get a cat now?

plonko dd3 is 2.8 and still feeds at night. I was hopeful she would wean when I was pregnant like dd1 did but she didn't. She was starting to stop feeding when ds got ill and when we came home she wanted feeding for reassurance (I think) but I'm now trying to wean her off. Bit difficult due to having to be around at bedtime to feed ds otherwise she wouldn't ask. I'm now up to 47 months altogether think of all the burnt calories

Good luck with the passport pics btw, I think they aren't as strict with little ones so might be easier now than as a toddler?

You've breastfed for FOUR YEARS? Wow. You're like supermum. Don't happen to be a bf counsellor do you?

I can't fault the attempt at support for bf I had even if everyone having a different idea was still true. Despite being transferred to the big hospital for our ventouse delivery, we were discharged after 1 night (yes, a night in which DS was fed formula by a mw) to our local midwife led unit where they regard establishing bfing as a medical need and will therefore keep you in. We stayed Sunday through Wednesday. Hardly avoided us having problems, although I guess I am still going in part, so maybe it did help.

Plonko, I remain amazed at the response to the red crystals as I was given in a nappy (ENGLISH VERSION) FINAL WITHOUT BLEED.pdf this nct sheet when they showed up which shows that urates (brick dust) is totally normal - bottom page 2.

Sorry, fluffed the link

in a nappy (ENGLISH VERSION) FINAL WITHOUT BLEED.pdf

Gaah! Blooming thing. Ok, try this (bottom of page) and if you want the picture click the link to the PDF doc on the right.

www.nct.org.uk/parenting/whats-your-babys-nappy

Pud that's just made me really sad. We were told by mws that they're a sign of dehydration and we should alert someone. So we did. She was about to look at my latch when I told her and said 'right, plan B, this baby's thirsty.' And poured formula into him.

Ok, he's four months old and a happy, strapping little lad. I need to let it go!

I think it's all down to personal choice in hospital now and whatever you choose they just let you get on with it without having anyone specifically trained to help either way. I was in for 3 days attempting bf as a girl opposite me was on bottles from the off. The only help I got was when I was struggling through loneliness and exhaustion when they topped him up with formula. There was one MW who told me I couldn't have top up and to just press on; when a younger MW heard that she came straight in with a cup of formula. Seems to be the answer now. I only know of one person my age (20s) out of about 10 who is bf-ing. I really admire bf-ers, I could only manage a week!

We had the urates too and were just told it was fine. That seemed to be the response to most things - "it's fine"

Blimey - I was lucky. I only stayed in one night but the midwives came in every few hours to remind me to feed, and help with the latch. To be fair mini-worse didn't need help. She was like a little snapper turtle.... snort snort snort.... SNAP....and suck. It was almost scary how determined she was. A bf-ing adviser also dropped by, but to be honest she annoyed me. Nothing wrong with her advice, it was just I had trouble taking it seriously as she looked about 15, spoke in that up at the end of the sentence way and had obviously learnt everything she knew from a book, rather than experience. The best tip I got was from a midwife who had bf 4 of her own, and that was feed lying on your side in bed. It's a lovely calm way to feed, and you can have a nap. Bonus!

Meanwhile, the man has just got home from work. This is the downside to working in call centres: constantly being told "Right, you're starting on X campaign in a month," then when you go back in a month you're told the company's lost the contract. Sigh.

We also has the red crystals in the nappy. DD was of course dehydrated and bloody starving in those first five days, and not pooing at all. As breastfed babies after the first week or so can go a very long time without pooing everyone kept saying it was fine and not to worry. If the NHS weren't so chronically underfunded and still sent out a midwife every day then DD wouldn't have spent the first five days of her life getting bugger all from my boobs and no one knowing.

How are you getting on with the passport photos plonko? It helps to have someone just off camera.who can hold their hands down and shake their favourite toy/something noisy in the direction of the camera. It also helps to set your camera to fire off in quick succession so you have a good chance of getting a good shot. I have a DSLR and poor DD has been photographed to death - I have lots of her looking drunk/trying to grab the camera/sneezing (v. funny) but also some simply amazing ones!

eig and pud nope you are not the only ones still with broken sleep. Seems like the 9pm-7am sleep through was just a glitch now he wakes every hour or so after 2am. Either due to hunger or due to wind.

Ive got a lot to catch up on but thought id say hi. We had an awful morning and feel like such an awful mum. I tripped up down the stairs whilstholding ds. He banged his head on the floor. I was in a crazy emotional state thinking ive brain damaged ds but a trip to a & e put us at ease and ds is fine. My poor ds is blessed with a horrible mummy like me

KK are you and LO ok?! I worry about that all the time... Do not beat yourself up - all stairs are risky to all humans in a nutshell, and unless you sit on your arse to come down them there's just no safe way to traverse them.

The BFing thing - we were bombarded with pro bf info, but the MWs and HVs were awful. They gave me the wrong info and stressed me out by being really rough with both DS and me. Consequently he didn't latch for 6 weeks so despite best intentions I never EBF - in the end I knew he just needed to eat because he was weeing blood and crystals really early on. The last thing the mw said as we left hospital was 'don't be afraid to give him formula'.

I needed a consultant to come to me just to reassure me that it wasn't going to be impossible for him to feed, but they all required me to walk for 30 mins with a screaming baby and then cry in public as I tried and failed painfully to get him on. I think it was the humiliation that affected me most, and even after he finally latched as you all know I never managed to feed in public.

I'd never seen anyone in my family feeding growing up, and anytime I'd seen someone feeding in public I looked away out of politeness, so the mechanics were a mystery until I had to do it myself. Maybe this is a big part of why it's not always easy or natural. Why do humans always seem to make natural things like nudity, sex, bodily functions so bloody taboo?!

Sadly the move won't grant me cat owner privileges - because it's a block of flats it's in the leaseholder agreement

Did a few hours of work yesterday and feel so much better about myself!!

leni its amazing how much doing work makes you feel human again isn't it? I think it makes me a better mukm which is why I now work a bit every day.

DD latched on within minutes of birth while I was still sat on my bathroom floor! It felt completely natural to aallow her to lick and root immediately and although it was painful to start with and had bleeding etc breastfeeding did and does feel like the most natural thing in the world. It helped that I found birth very easy (would prefer to do it twice a year than go to the dentist for a checkup!)So had lots of energy to keep trying but also because I had a team of independent midwives who worked tirelessly with me for 4 weeks till we got it right. We were left alone for the first night and every night since and I preferred it as it gave me and DD space and peace to figure it out for ourselves!

KF that's terrifying but I've heard so many mums have done it, so glad you're both ok.

I'm in a rather middle class town in the SE and whilst bfing, at least initially, is the norm, the advice I got in hospital was shite. I was completely out of it after losing a lot of blood and waiting for a d&c for a retained placenta, and I wasn't encouraged to have skin to skin or try to feed straight away. I didn't have the wherewithal to ask! Then in pn ward I kept getting mixed messages re:positioning, I'd be told one way by one mw then told off for doing it that way by another. I was worried that dd wasn't waking to feed, no one reassured me. They'd tell me I had to wake her in an hours time, then when she didn't feed told me it didn't matter. I left hospital without being able to latch her on my own, and every time I had asked for help overnight when she wouldn't latch I was made to feel I was wasting their time. Not really sure how I carried on!

Dd has developed a habit of feeding for 20 secs then screaming blue murder at the 4pm ish feed, just as my milk lets down, which is very messy! She seems to hate lying on her side for it. Weird. Think we're going to move to just bfing first in the morning and at bedtime and ff the rest. For the totally controversial reason that...I can't be bothered... Well, not quite that, it's that I can't face the fight to bf at 4pm when she so happily takes a bottle. It's emotionally exhausting and feels cruel.

Today we hit 9th centile line! Feel so much better that we've got a bit of a buffer now.

And I'm also up in the middle of the night for a feed. We've gone backwards too, for about a month she was waking at 4.30-5.30 ish after a 10.30 dream feed, but we're back to 3.30 for the last few days, then a battle to keep her asleep after about 5.30am. Yawn.

Yes we are both fine. I think i was just shocked.

Re breastfeeding. Mws tried to be supportive but they were all giving conflicting information. I was in so much pain bf that i would dig my nails into dh whilst bf. Each feed i would show the hcp and they would say the latch is fine but it still hurt like hell and ds would not settle for hours and only when i gave him formula he slept for hours. If only hcp were completely honest about the intensity of bf then maybe i would have prepared myself better. They always show happy mums with perfectly latched on babies guzzling milk in leaflets and dvds. Whereas the reality is a frazzled mum with a dissatisfied ds fighting at the breast rooting for milk.

Sorry just read my post and there are a lot 'and'. Ignore me im just frazzled by today and still putting up with the crazy mil.

KF that's exactly how bf was for me for the first couple of weeks - agony! I would cry through every feed and have DH press my feet really hard so it hurt somewhere else. But I was pig headed and got on with it. My pain was irrelevant to me as I had a healthy baby who was alive and that made my discomfort worth it!

Oh Plonko. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you sad but your LO is obviously going great guns . Just amazed at the different responses to the same stuff from people who supposedly know what they are talking about.

DS just wouldn't latch. Took a fortnight before he managed it properly. This is prob why I have the supply issues I do, not enough stimulation in the early days despite all the bloody expressing.

It never hurt though. Not for weeks. Then I started getting a couple of blocked nipple ducts on the left side and I just cannot seem to get them to stay clear, they really can be a bit lively!

Trying to get DS to take a bottle at the moment is a real bugger. Dream feed is the only one where it works a treat. Funny that now I keep trying to get formula down his neck after weeks trying to ebf .

Glad you and LO are ok KF. I have nightmares about that here! Scary for you.

Pud don't be silly, it's just all that conflicting advice. I feel sad that I panicked and sad at easily I was pushed away from bfing in my post birth haze.

Next time will be different! Forewarned is forearmed an all that.

KF horrible experience, so sorry you've beenshakenup. Who said owt about being a bad mum? Sounds like you care lots and love your LO deeply. Drink tea and be nice to yourself.

Stormy that sucks. Is that really the best they can offer him? I've worked in a few positions on casual as/when needed contracts and its hard going. I've spent the evening applying for this other job and in summarising my current re I feel I ought to quote the inifinite wisdom of Bernard Black 'The pay isn't great but the work is hard'