October 2012: onwards, upwards and rolling over?

[YompingJo]

Is this part 5 already? Where did that time go?

yomping glad you had a better night

huffle your night sounds shit. But it will get better...in the mean time just hang on in there.

squid well done on the eBay bargain. I love eBay and we have furnished most of our house with things from eBay. It often means a long winded trip to some strange place and we always have a bit of a struggle to fit things in the car but it's an adventure.

Sympathies for those with DH's away. My DH is also away until next week in America so DD and I are on our own. Managing fine for now just miss him coming home at 6.30. The afternoon/evenings can get quite long.

Tramped through the slush today to go to baby group. Saw a mum who I haven't seen from before Christmas. Turns out she found out in the new year that her husband had been having an affair since she had her baby in October and has now left her. She is now a single mum with a 3 month old, has to sell the house etc... He told her that she put the baby first and only thought about the baby, put him second now. She has a tiny baby, what does he expect, prick.

It quite shocked me, how can someone do that but I guess it happens quite a lot, men who can't deal with the huge change of having a baby so have an affair with someone else instead.

Scratchy, scratchy maddening throat

Squid - excellent find on ebay bargain! I get ebay rage here as all the good baby stuff is England 'for collection only' and no one in NI ever seems to put anything on

Olivess when I read about men like the affair man I long to go all bobbit on them - what sort of fucking twunt does that?!

Olives that is fucking awful, boyfriend plays football with someone who dumped his girlfriend 2 WEEKS after giving birth and says he struggles to look him in the eye.

Sends Angelico cups of hot lemon and honey. Hope you are getting some sleep...

Orenisshi completely agree about baby groups being like school! It's a bit exhausting. I am fortunate enough to have mates with babies, which is a lot easier...

Lying down breastfeeding - I lie on my side, baby starts on her side but usually moves onto her back with her head turned towards me - I don't think the turned head bothers her. I tend to fall asleep, it's very comfy. A pillow behind your back to support you helps massively. A man is even better...

i also feed lying down in my side, baby feeds off bottom boob either on her side propped up by a pillow or on her back & turns her head. did feel a bit uncomfy in the beginning but now fine. hope u feel better soon angelico and hoping for a better nite for huffle, yomping et al

oh meant to say to livvy, god news about doctor's appointment. I suppose it's a rough one because if there are allergies you can start to fix issues and its an explanation for some of the difficulty. on the other hands, allergies aren't ideal. is it the kinds of thing she might grow out of do you know?

sending sleepy vibes to all who need them, particularly huffle and yomping.

Olivess that is shocking. Happens a fair bit. Poor poor girl.

Thanks for good vibes. After initial tricky morning DS has been great all day. Lots of naps, lots of poos and wind and plenty smiles. He is not over tired or uncomfortable and form is good. So I can do nothing else. Except go to sleep right now!!!

Promise to be a more supportive catcher upper when I get my mojo back!!

You're all fab
Xx

Thank you also for the good vibes. Dd has had 3 naps today in car seat, sling and buggy but bedtime is later than ideal as I had my Crazy Person workshop (step one in tackling anger and not-giving-self-a-break issues) and DH, who is usually excellent at sorting dinner, didn't really get it sorted. So we are late then dd had a rushed bath and did not want to be massaged at all. No idea how tonight will go!

I'm still feeding her to sleep at night but getting really worried about this, feel I need to break the link between food and sleep again but have given up on encouraging her to self settle while we get through this rocky stage, hopefully it's only temporary.

Side feeding - dd seems to be able to balance on her side but I used to stick a rolled up cellular blanket behind her to hold her in position. I lie with my top leg bent, knee towards her and my bottom leg straight, bottom arm sticking out under my head or the pillow, top arm snuggling her in close, which helps to keep her in her side. My problems though are firstly that she kicks a lot with her legs which is annoying and uncomfortable and means that if she kicks down against my thighs she pushes herself up too high to stay latched, and secondly I just can't get a good latch with side feeding - because the boob drops down sideways due to gravity, I can't get a good enough handful of boob to help her get a good deep latch which she still needs help with every bloody couple of minutes during a feed .

4am and we only on wake number2. Progress, right? Thus far not screeching awake either. In much bigger news tho, fed to sleep but woke up 2 mins after put down. Less than 10 mins in own company went to sleep. I was actually lying in bed but he couldn't see me. Kept looking up and back to door but never cried at all.

Newly emerging skill: looking up and back at same time by trying to crane head, been doing last few days. Also shouting. Very very loudly.

Assume nowt. Tis only 4am.........

Yomping me too in feeding to sleep. But figure we need to get handle on longer sleep first so I am putting out oif mind for foreseeable future. No rush. Will be interesting when I go back to work in less than 4 weeks.........!

So this is where an overtired baby gets you. We had lots of tears before bed last night because she only had three 20 minute naps all day yesterday. Then when she fell asleep, she slept so deeply I couldn't give her the usual dream feed- I was poking her and everything, she just wouldn't rouse at all. Then she woke at 3am and decided it was playtime. She's still shrieking excitedly every few seconds even though I'm trying to stroke her head calmly. Can't pick her up to settle as she never settles in my arms. Balls. Ewan the Sheep is a cock as well. Never bloody works, she just talks to it. Meh.

Hi huffle! You're up too then? I remember the nights a couple of months ago when there was always someone up on here...

Heh, missed you there London! Yes, tis progress really cos there's not much night posting among us! Sorry missy not so settled tonight. Sounds like the day sleep is the culprit. Ewan is nearing retirement here too. Not useful like he used to be. Mutton stew is looming........

Sorry you are having middle of night playtime London. Hope she has wised up by now!

That article I linked to yesterday (sorry) was adamant that almost certainly most night sleep issues linked to poor day napping. So I will keep trying hard to encourage him to sleep in day. Also said majority of under 6 month old babies don't fall asleep easily in day and need help to do so. That makes me feel so much better as i thought it was just us being crap!

I found that mumsnetting during the night feeds makes it harder to go back to sleep afterwards, so whilst I was up at 115 and 530, I restrained myself from the temptation of chat!

London, apparently sometimes allergies ease around four months and sometimes last til they are two or three. Hum. Still, am hoping for good advice and, ideally, some allergy tests so I don't keep having to guess. I am currently deducing that egg is bad (in addition to dairy) but it'd be helpful to have a definitive list to avoid. I'm also told that the hyper allergenic formula is disgusting so I will need to add a small quantity to expressed milk for a while, then gradually increase the concentration of formula vs my milk so that by six months I can have my boobs and my life back. It's so stressful endlessly writing down everything I eat and examining menus in the pub and realising there is nothing i can eat. Dull.

Hi all, hope you don't mind me posting! I am a long time lurker (don't mean that in a creepy way. You ladies keep me going through the long nights. It's just I never seem to get up to date with you all to post!). Huffle sounds like you are going through the same sleep problems I had with my little boy. He's 2 now but when he was little we got into a terrible cycle of me not being able to nap, him bring chronically overtired and then waking frequently at night. Went on for months and drove me to the edge of insanity. Anyway, just to reassure you that it won't last! He showed very few tired signs so it was very hit and miss. At your sons age he would go back down very easily about an hour after he woke if fed to sleep. He had 2 other naps in the day, one at about lunch time and the other at about 4ish. To get him into the habit of having these I would take him out in the pram or car as they were guaranteed ways to get him off. We had many naps together in Tesco carpark! Almost straight away his nighttime sleeping improved and when he was used to this cycle then I started to try and get him napping at home. By about 6 months I started using the 2 3 4 rule here which worked a treat. He's always needed lots of encouragement to sleep but we got there. Just wanted you to know you're not on your own!
Going through the 4 month regression here too with my younger one. Awake every 1.5 - 2 hours for over a week. Matchsticks please ...

Hey Livvy. So hopeful about your appointment. Hopefully it will answer so many questions for you. I'm sure you have a long list!

Squashed pea hello and welcome! Thank you for coming on to help me!!! Was just in work there having a chat to someone and said my son won't sleep in cot during day. She said well don't u just put him down?? Yeah, tis that feckin simple.........

Just read that squashed. Very interesting. I have bookmarked it to come back to. I've been shocked this past few days to see just how short DS goes between naps. Can be as little as 75 mins but generally about 90. He then sleeps 40 ish. Even the middle of day one. I need to try hard and stay at home or just have one trip out to see if this is indeed his rhythm. I suppose if I can then be sure of timings we can then start trying cot again. That scheme sounds good. I will certainly revisit it.

Is this all due to BF and bring busy you think ladies??? Has my DS been used to being comforted or driven to sleep from v early on and thus he doesn't know any different? Obviously different DCs are susceptible to different things but perhaps I have encouraged a sleep issue. Not besting self up, nothing I can do about now. But wonder if I would be different second time round. I just assumed daytime sleeping would 'happen' Will be interesting to see how DH gets him to sleep.

Right, so I'm about to sound a bit mental, but here we go....

How does your routine not get totally messed up when you... you know... actually do stuff?

I mean my baby wakes, feeds, plays and then when she's been awake for 2 hours (or between 90 minutes and 2 hours) she goes down for a 30-45 minute nap, then wakes, feeds etc etc. I did not set this routine, she did. But I like it because it makes things a bit more predictable and also I can keep it fairly similar day to day with 4 naps and then bed around 7pm.

But this gets totally fucked up if we go out because she might nap here and there in the pram and then not want the next nap or she might have several little 5 minute naps, but nothing proper. Then the routine goes out the window and she feeds as and when, naps as and when and generally gets totally overtired.
So I can either stay in all day and have the perfect routine and the perfect baby... but lose what little sanity I have remaining... or let go of the routine, but also lose my decent nights and lose what tiny control I currently have over the rubbish feeding.

Yes, I am a control freak and yes I am obsessive. I guess the advice someone should give me is something along the lines of "Get a grip, woman. She's a baby, not a bus station, she can't be scheduled. Just go with the flow." I just don't know how to have a flexible routine when I have a baby who does seem to establish a nice cycle if not interrupted.

DS and DD are/were both ebf and had/have no problems napping during the day, before or after a feed. I don't put this down to my expertise but just the fact that all babies are different. Yomping, I really, really wouldn't fret about feeding DD to sleep at night. Whatever works! Their habits change and it doesn't mean she'll want milk at bedtime forever.

Oh MAN. I am now to avoid dairy (all mammalian), all eggs and all soya for 4-6 weeks. Eggs and soya are in bloody everything. Including bread. And the lovely sainsbury brownies I had. Boo! And dd is likely to be allergic for quite some time. 80% are fine by the time they go to school, though they can have higher incidences of asthma, hayfever etc. aargh. I am feeling forlorn and overwhelmed. I need to do more research. But first I shall have a cup of (decaf) tea with oat milk and try to breathe. I know it's for a good cause (her health) but man this is a pita. And it'll be worse when she's weaning too. No petit filou for her... Just a tasty alternative called neocate spoon. Hum. Right. Deep breath. And suggestions of where to get bread that fits all those criteria v welcome.

As for keeping dd awake for 2 3 and 4 hours???? Crikey that ain't gonna happen. She is generally horrid after 1.5 hours and asleep by 2.

Sorry to be all me me me. I feel full of woe.

If it's of interest to anyone, since similar food/allergy talk has come up, we've finally decided on the baby biotics and got some that are gluten and dairy free. I've cut out dairy apart from butter, gluten, wheat etc. DS has dry skin in patches...it's not painful looking eczema but it's red and rashy. You put the powder in your expressed milk, or formula or you can make a paste to put on your nipple - nice!

I took him to the clinic - why do I do this to myself!! - and he's now on the 9th percentile for weight. They suggested he doesn't like my milk because he's gaining weight slowly and he has this dry skin. Fuck it all! I cannot be arsed with this anymore - he feeds, he feeds well, he possets FFS, and he has plenty of wet nappies. I am not going back there - I don't need to meet with the GP to discuss options. What options? Be put on formula? He was chatting away to her, all gurgly and giggly and full of life - he is obviously thriving. They can stick their bloody charts and percentiles up their arses!

londonmrss I don't have any advice other than - this uncertain parenthood time is but a tiny time in your life. Don't drive yourself nuts with worrying about the perfect routine, the perfect baby, will going out disrupt that etc etc - if you do go out and you do disrupt the routine, it's one day out of hundreds - you will get things back on track.

Londonmrss I am on 2nd day in house mostly to see how it goes. He is more predictable than I thought. Still refuses to sleep on own, but still. The truth is that i cannot stay home like this. I hav too many things I need to do. And I would go insane. But I need to try and stay put for a while. Every move this poor child has made over past 10 weeks has been recorded in an app. He probably thinks iPhone is part of mummy's hand. I do not know where the compromise lies. Someone please, do tell.

Livvy. Cripes. Poor you. Many peeps would give up on BF for much less. I seriously admire you. Great that you are getting constructive help. I met a girl the other day whose baby had terrible reflux. Formula fed. I asked her what milk she had tried. Said she used aptamil. I asked had GP suggested non dairy milk. She said they told her to stick with aptamil as is the best....... Not wanting to give unsolicited advice and really knowing nothing about it I just said nothing. But surely that is unhelpful advice??

Good luck to uou, hope you find some fab alternatives!! We lived without bread for about 6 months, felt great for it. But missed it....,,

orenishii doesn't like your milk???? wtaf? I am absolutely flabbergasted at that comment. in many ways it's so ridiculous it's absolutely hilarious.

cherry thanks for thinking of me. I've had a tricky couple of weeks, hopefully starting to see a glimmer of light now. on the other hand it looks like my godmother only has a few days left and isn't really responsive any more so a visit, even if possible, would be fairly futile it's all happening unbelievably quickly. fucking cancer.

orenishii fwiw the dietician said today that skin complaints in babies are often linked to wheat. dd has spots but no excema so I am allowed to continue. I would suggest avoiding wheat but think you dont eat it anyway?

londonmrss I try to schedule my socialising around her naps. so drive during morning nap to x house, feed and play there then come back during next nap time. it doesn't always work though, like today when I tried to do toi much and now feel like chewed string.

huffle I am so over it. I need the doc to prescribe neocate (the hyper allergenic formula) and then I am going to start the laborious process of moving her onto it (it tastes nasty so you have to mix with expressed milk initially). I hope to have given up bf entirely by end April and get my life back. though I'll be reading labels for her for some time. I agree that simply advising the aptimil reflux seems to be not exploring all the options. perhaps suggest she has a read of www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nZ

Welcome pea thanks for that link, will add it to my never ending list of sleep references! to ignore as really I can't be arsed Seriously thou, reminded me of a lady at our children's centre who was saying she used booby for everything but then when her dd went to nursery they just magically got her into a napping routine so don't sweat it! Sounds like this 2, 3, 4 thing isn't till 6 months anyway so will go back and consider it then.

oren doesn't like your milk??? They'll like formula even less then! What nonsense.

londonmrs we kind of shift naps around as much as possible to suit activities, I find I can persuade her to stay awake a bit longer by carrying her round on a tour of the house and go to sleep a bit earlier with the pram or drive. So sometimes I might leave quite a bit earlier and walk or drive round for a bit before arrival! A lot of stuff like the mum & baby groups it doesn't matter if they nap there thou and at baby massage they'll give you a doll if your baby's asleep. I've never yet made it through a whole baby yoga class as she always gets bored and wants cuddling or feeding before the end!

Crikey livvy I think I'd starve! Glad you've a plan, good luck with the disgusting milk!

Dd stubbonly awake 2am till 4.30am last night, bloody cold (yawn). Early night tonight hopefully!

Ok, so I haven't posted since the antenatal thread but the whole food intolerance thing is something I feel I can contribute some useful stuff on as I am dairy and wheat intolerant.

livvy poor you having to cut so much out really really sucks, I know. You might have to make a fair bit from scratch to make sure there are no nasties in it. If this is the case can I recommend this website? Lots of recipes and ideas, and it has replacements/alternatives for all the things you might usually use in cooking so you can pick and choose your allergies and follow the recipes accordingly. Every recipe I've tried from there has worked well.

Please also be careful when picking up stuff labelled 'free from' in supermarkets as this sometimes only means free from wheat/gluten not dairy. Similarly, free from milk isn't the same as free from dairy - in short check everything because it's a bloody minefield!

Here endeth the lesson! Sorry if a lot of this is obvious, it's good that you should only have to deal with it for short time. Just thought I'd pass on the things I've learned the hard way

Oren hvs are nobbers. We went to baby clinic today and turns out my little one has stayed on the same centile despite all our feeding problems. I mentioned how difficult it has been to the hv and she immediately suggested formula! How about more support bfing?! Or how about 'Well done for continuing to ebf, your baby is gaining weight well and is obviously very healthy despite your difficulty'? Nope, just 'try formula'. I know formula is just perfect for babies, but it's a bit insulting after everything I've been through with feeding.

This same hv suggested that the mum next to me start weaning. Her baby is 16 weeks old. Nobber. I think the mitral of the story is ignore hvs. They don't know shit.