Dec 08 Mums - happy new year, happy new thread and soon some happy new babies!

[sybilfaulty]

Happy new year!

Sorry for the rubbish title but wanted to get the new thread underway. Let's close the door on some of the sad events of 2011 and look forward to a better year in 2012.

Wow Indith you know your onions! L is recognising letters and I'm not sure how phonic sounds things out. Any recommendations for a starter kit for me and her? I didn't learn to read phonic style!

Spot Glad the baby is sitting tight.

Hello Lady, cracked ribs and a chest infection sounds like torture.

You make planes out of toilet rolls? Awesome, I'm crap with craft, I always envisioned I would do loads of craft with them, but in reality, not so much.

Lady that's a bit of a bummer about the bitchiness why is it a crowd of women can't get together without it eventually getting all a bit underhanded and backstabbing.

ZJ your DH is right we've had son serious snow here today a good inch or so is still on the ground. Shame the Dutch Spruitjes boers won't be able to harvest, but good for your bank account I guess and we'll be off out for some sledging tomorrow.

Had my PT session today the first session back after our trip home was physically hard but more than that I found it quite mentally hard, but today was much better, it hurt but mentally I was almost kind of enjoying it.

Lady we do think we will go home, but we really need to get some savings going first. We checked out dh's work possibilities and he will get paid quite week and with me working at least part time we should be quite OK over there. But we want to go over with en ough to physically pay for the move and settle us in and to still cover the cost if this house here being vacant for however long it takes to rent and what we top up on the Derby property for a few months while we get settled and both get jobs. So the short answer is no idea as we are Nev very good at saving. I thinj eventually we'll just have to take the bull by the horns and decide a date and work towards that.

Ds1's teacher had a chat to us, poor ds1 has fallen behind further than expected with the break away and he has to do extra work at home to catch up. Because Montessori doesn't normally give himework its not like he is adding to work he already does, but dh and I feel bad now that we took him out for so long and have gotten him so behind his classmates. I'm sure he can catch up, but its hard yo hear that your child is behind the other kids. Anyway on the reading thing, they kind of do a combination of phonics and repetition. Also they don't mess about with silent letters like a cheeky random K at the beginning of a word or e at the end. If they want to lengthen the sound of a letter they simply add another letter, so if a vowel needs lengthening they just double it, o becomes oo. For his English reading we are using the Oxford learning tree books the chip and Kipper names are annoying but they are effective.

I've gotta go we are watching a Chinese movie with English subtitkes and I can't keep up as I a, typing.

LadyT - on the reading thing, I think the phonics stuff does help along with other things, but I also think DD's mind works that way. Like your DD, she got the link between letters and sounds a while ago starting with "T for Talia" etc etc and could read simple words before she started school, but its really taken off which is lovely to see. The jargon is funny though - they teach them "phonemes" and dd comes home talking about "digraphs" and "trigraphs". They are also learning to recognise "tricky words" by sight and use other clues like pictures etc to help. English is so bizarre. She was asking the other day wat sound "ht" made which didn't make much sense until we realised she was reading a street sign with "Creighton" - learning phonics sorts some of that kind of thing out. She mislaid a hat a school last week and came back with a sign she had written "Losd 1 blac hat. If found ples retun to Talia". The books are dull and its much more fun reading what you enjoy. We have some of the jolly phonics stuff at home and they send her with the big cat series from school which are OK, but actually she is having fun reading the picture books etc we have about. It is such fun seeing it all come together though. Makes it easier for DS too - he seems to have picked up stuff without us even noticing.

ZJ - very glad your DH saw sense of the trip. And its great he takes pride in his work, but....

Spot - so very sorry to read about your sister but glad to know she seems to be well looked after.

Vag - sorry about your DS, but don't feel bad - he's obviously had some special experiences from the trip and really, at this age he'll soon catch up. I guess you have to look positively that school is trying to be proactive and help.

Oops crossed posted a lot. I can't believe they don't think kids should sound out words, surely that is the natural order of reading, learn the letters, recognise the letters, use the letters to form the words ( learning the different rules as they go along) and then eventually learn to recognise words after seeing them so often (ie like the OLT books). They seem in such a rush to get kids to read that they have forgotten the importance of comprehension and just plain enjoyment of reading. Here they are similar to Finland in that they wait for kids to get to grips with letters, both writing them and recognising before getting to heavily into them reading, but they do a huge amount of reading to kids in school, both the teachers and parent helpers. one of the teachers said that it is really important to teach kids to really listen, comprehend and enjoy stories before starting to read themselves. It made sense, and i have to say kids seem to pick it up pretty quickly here.

Well, I would definitely agree, Vag, that reading to kids, whether they can read already or not, is the principal way of inciting their interest in words, stories, reading, the lot. As to DS - he will catch back up, don't fret. I am a big believer intravel for kids. It was an important trip and I bet he got a lot out of it.

I think it's partly all the jargon that depresses me, Invis. And the problem with phonics in English - which as a language is, as you say, tricksy - that when you put letters together in all but the simplest, most regular words the sounds are changed, sometimes in quite bizarre ways. I just think - why learn 43 sounds plus arm movements when you may as well just learn your alphabet and accept that they don't always follow logic. I think another huge thing is giving the kids confidence to have a go at words and not be scared about getting it wrong. It must be lovely seeing your DD writing, I bet.

I'm not a pushy ma but the acquisition of reading/writing/an appreciation of language is so important to me. It's just the bedrock of so much. However, I haven't a clue about the same issues relating to numeracy (for instance) so will probably just blindly follow the school on that one...

I'm not entirely sure which system DS1 is learning - he talks about digraphs and has words to learn (esp the tricky ones). I'm of the view that my job is to get him to enjoy books and want to read, so we do the school books but also leave time for reading interesting books together. Numeracy is interesting cos it is things like number lines which I need to get my head around! He's pretty good at mental arithmetic and recognising numbers - we practice on the house numbers on the walk to school. I also try and do a bit of science because it doesn't seem to be covered much, although by science I mean finding out how stuff works . Clouds and rainbows and snow and making pasta, that kind of thing.

I think phonics works because it does break down the rules of our daft language. Learniing the alphabet as "ay, bee, cee, dee" doesn't work because those are not the sounds commonly heard in words. you don't say "deeyouk" do you? You say "duck" hence learning the letters by phonics so they learn a nice, clean "d,d,d,d dog".

I certainly agree that it is about enjoyment though. If a child doesn't enjoy reading then they won't want to do it. Ds goes through his reading books very quickly and once he has read it to me a couple of times he finds it boring so we just read other things, he loves Roald Dahl and is starting to be able to to follow the words on the page so he will suddenly bring the story to a halt and yell "key word!" He also likes taking over the reading of Julia Donaldson type books to his sister .

Jolly, I love Read, Write, Inc (if you hadn't already guessed ) they are well laid out, they work on little rhymes and pictures so your child can turn the card over to look at the picture and it jogs their memory rather than you having to remind them. Amazon do the "buy all 3 for..." with sets 1-3 and a little book with information for parents in."

Sorry your ds is having trouble Vag. I'm with LadyT though, he will catch up again and he will have got so much more out of the trip than he would have done in school. They are so little, seeing different places and cultures counts for so much more than a bit of reading and writing.

Effie I am dreading number lines and things! We are still on simple adding and subtraction using fingers and counters here. I know I'll end up confusing him by trying to "help" using the ways I was taught. Schools should run an evening for confused parents where they teach them the number lines .

The children's centre next to the school runs parent classes for numeracy and literacy . Might be worth checking for similar in your area. I haven't done the numeracy one yet but will have to do so.

DD's school actually did an evening for parents on numeracy strategies. Sadly I was away so DH went. He then tried to teach me about number lines and number squares and, um, I still don't get it. Luckily, before we even had DD1, we agreed I would do all English/humanities homework and DH would cover maths, physics etc. We get to share biology and history as our only shared interests.

One of the ways I am trying to encourage DD1 to love reading is that we share by reading alternate pages of a book to each other. She loves that. And she loves being read to. Sadly she doesn't yet love reading to herself. I hope that will come but she definitely sees reading on her own as 'homework' and something you do because you have to. I am worried school has done that to her by insisting on 15 mins reading every night. By diligently enforcing school's rules I am to blame too. Lesson learnt for DD2: don't make things she's inclined to enjoy into a chore.

We've got lots of snow!!! I want it to be gone by Monday so I can get to my scan.

DS1 much prefers numbers to reading. They were learning to count in 2's the other week and his teacher said he could do 2,4,6 etc all the way to 20 without any help.

Should DD1 be reading already?? I am nervous about her lack of any skills there!! Do you all have reading 3 year olds?? Shit!!

PS Indith can you do a link to that Amazon page please? Am going to get stuck in with Izz!

I don't Beans I have an almost reading almost 5 year old and a pretends to read 3 year old. DS2 is great, he picks up books and stuff and comes out with gobbledygook.

Beans - no she shouldn't! She should love looking at the pictures, being read to and asked to do things like tell you who is doing what, where is X and what does that person feel (eg "do you think Kipper is happy or sad? Why is that?" (because Floppy the dog has run off with the cake or whatever)). Anything above and beyond is a bonus. Don't force it. I am on my second go at ORT (Biff, Kipper et al) with T and the quickest way for them to take against it is if you compel them to do it.

IME, second children often pick it up more quickly as they have had silent coaching via watching the first. Let her love books and reading - she'll get there in her own time. If she can read some words when she starts school that's great, but if she can't it doesn't matter as that's what she is there to learn.

L did not start school til Christmas of her reception year. She could write her name, a few letters and generally had quite good fine motor skills. Could not read a word though! She is now (y2) a fluent reader (can read Harry Potter et al) and a brilliant writer. T could barely hold a pen when she started school but had fab social skills instead. She is coming along and can now do a little writing. They all get there. Let her enjoy being 3 and the reading will come as you read to her. Nothing more is needed for now. Honest .

Matthew can recognise numbers as he spends his life obsessing about Thomas. Gordon - no4. Edward - no 2. James - no 3! Or whatever they are. Can't read a bloody word though.

Beans No! As DD's headteacher reassuringly puts it, there are children who start reception able to read and some who don't know anything and won't read for a while as well as anything in between - all completely normal and doesn't really tell you much about how they'll get on. DD couldn't do any more than write her name and recognise letters when she started reception (age 4 and a bit). DS knows the M for mummy, D for daddy and a few others (his own initial etc) but that's pretty much it.

And yes, syb that thomas obsession is very familiar...!

Ds1 was a real numbers boy and was counting from quite young but he has become a little less excited about it these days, I think school has made it a bore. I think he finds the reading at school a little boring but he quite enjoys our time reading together esp as we try to work out what the sentences say together, me using my translator and him using the Dutch he knows. It's been quite good for us both to get to grips with Dutch grammer. They do science quite well here esp. experimenting with water and water management. You would love it Eff. In the equivalent of reception DS1 was learning about how rwater falls drains and collects on different types of land masses. Going to the beach is hilarious here, instead of kids digging big holes or making sandcastles they build water reservoirs, channelsing and collecting the water of the rising tide in elaborate child made estuaries and channels.

Beans DS2 loves looking at books, will pour over them for ages, but he has no idea what the black printed shapes are at the bottom. They were both so funny when we got onto a plane during our trip they woudl both sit themselves down clip themselves into their seat belts then lean forward to extract their preferred 'reading' material from the seat pocket. For DS1 it was the airplane emergency instruction manual (we have 2 of these at home as takeaways) and for DS2 it's the I flight magazine.

Sybs I am a big believer in the educational possibilities of Thomas & his friends, by the tender age of 2.5 ds1 understoon magnets, as his Thomas trains needed them in order to couple together adequately. They could also be coupled to he underside of a metal framed chair and to teaspoons used for stiring mummies tea.

Oops mummy's, though I guess he would have tried it out on several mummies tea spoons to prove his theory.

Beans, at 3 they should be doing nothing more than being happy to look at books. It's all about encouraging not forcing reading. That's not to say if they enjoy doing some phonics let them but in my experience all teachers have their own way if doing things and would much rather teach the children rather than re teach and correct. DS1 wouldn't hold a pencil inSeptember but has always loved reading books ( not real reading) he is now writing drawing etc happily and us slowly learning at his own pace how to read no pressure. They all get there in the end gentle encouragement is all you need at this stage. Oh and a child who comes home every day saying they did nothing then there is no pressure to teach them st home

I am currently lying in a hotel rm a little drunk after a lovely meal with DH. Am a little concerned we wont get back to Essex tom to pick up the monsters and then home. But I guess that's where the cocktails help only a little concerned rather than raging loony lets leave now.

Enjoy the snow!

Aw Kayz he sounds great at numbers :) Ds still needs his fingers for adding 1 .

Jam sounds like you've had a good night :)

And no, we were mostly talking about the big ones and school/reading not the little ones! You just go with what they want. Ds couldn't do much other than write his name (sort of) when he started school but as soon as he started he constantly asked to do more and more and more at home so we do. Dd is getting the hang of sounds because she sees her brother doing it but I only do stuff with her when she asks. Maybe she will be reading by the time she is 4 or maybe she will have lost interest completely. Either way I don't care.

Beans these are the cards I use

Bit of snow on the ground but looks like it will be clear today and not snowing again so we need ot get out and sledge before it all goes away else I will have some very annoyed children.

I think a lot of DS1's numbers come from Thomas too. There is a song about the trains that goes 2,4,6,8 which must help. DS2 can even do that but can't do 1-10 normally

Indith We have loads of snow, do you want some? I want to go for my scan tomorrow and I need the roads to be clear and for DS1 to be at school.

Shunting trucks and hauling freight........

No you can keep your snow. We had enough for a bit of sledging and a morning spent out with their friends. Now it is brilliantly sunny and everything is melting, I do not fancy having to drag the dcs to school and nursery on a sledge because I can't get the car out. i am way too pregnant for that!

Next year we can go back to winters like the past 2. I rather enjoyed them :) I'd enjoy one again if I wasn't so stressed about interview and possibility of going into labour before it.

I'm not a massive fan of snow myself - we've had about three or four inches here, but it certainly looks very pretty. I am happy enough to have snow if a) it's not too deep and b) it doesn't hang around looking scrappy and causing chaos...

I didn't mean to start up a panic with the reading Sorry. No Beans, no reading 3 yr old here either, but she is trying (because she happens to like that stuff and I must admit I encourage any interest in this area though if she was completely uninterested I would not be forcing it) and, totally separate to that she has started doing these Jolly Phonics things at pre-school this term. They have quite a few 4 yr olds in the mix (and v small numbers of kids) so I guess they are upping the ante. They are also doing tiny bits of writing at school, which is nice and DD1 is in fact probably more interested in this than reading. But I am under no illusion that this means anything particularly significant at this age other than she happens to like it. She also likes using litres of that messy white glue and countless other things. But if she is interested in reading and writing, fabbo, and I am not going to hold her back simply because she is 3. Neither am I going to use phonics at home if she is happy exploring letters and words another way, simply because it happens to be the current orthodoxy in 60 or 70% of schools including the one she is going to attend. Fashions come and go with these things (also, if you learn 'blow the snow' what happens when the 'cow takes a bow'? Or, worse, 'the sow sowed seeds'). Vag, you mentioned how school might have killed your DS1's interest in numbers and that is my great fear. I remember to this day how boring and heinous my first couple of years were at infant school. The only brilliant bits were the other kids and the toys. So no doubt I am chippy because of that, ha.

Interesting that there's quite a big gulf between state and private even at this age. There's a little girl the same age as DD1 who goes to a pre-prep a few days a week as well as DD1's pre-school once a week. It really is a formal learning scenario there, even for the 3 yr olds - writing, desks...Now, I am not saying that is necessarily good because my personal view is that all that's too heavy for that age and they need more space to choose their own activities, play, paint, make stuff, learn to play with other kids...

Talking generally about development, things are just so variable. I have never heard of a kid who walked as late as DD1 - 22 mths. DD2 has crawled for months and cruises and stands up from sitting and takes a couple of steps, but she is 16mths so I guess that is still reasonably late.

Jam, did you make it home? I hope you can get to your scan, Kayz. Brr, this house is coooools. Oh for gas central heating.

Phew. Can wipe sweat off brow. DD1 loves looking at books and has learnt to write first letter of her name at pre-school. Not that challenging with an I!!! She likes to listen to us reading to her, then tell the story back at the end while looking at the pictures. It's rather lovely. Am relieved to hear all normal!! Will get those cards, Indith, thank you. They look rather good and quite fun. I can see the point of phonics, with C A T spelling cat. Wish English wasn't such a complicated language for them! I LOVE spelling in a weird, geeky way. DH is dyslexic. Am hoping DDs take after me in spelling and him in maths as I am not so hot at that!

What a lovely snowy day. I have lost my voice to a squawky monster, so sound most odd. And sound really ill, but in reality, I feel absolutely fine. Have had 2 nights of 9.5hrs sleep in a row, which is UNHEARD of. I'm not sure if that's down to Nightnurse or the girls sleeping well. Nightnurse is a wonderful drug, although it does make me sluggish in the mornings. Saturday, none of us woke til 8am. WOWSERS! And last night I went to bed at 9.30. Bliss.

We did playing in the garden this morning, making a snowman. DD1 loved it. DD2, not so much. Then DH took them swimming while I prepared lamb shanks with a bean side dish. DEEEELICIOUS! Had 3 friends for lunch and two more littles, for whom I made spag bol. Then went for a lovely snowy walk. DD2 hasn't had a sleep, so has gone feral. She is exhausted and yawning like a mad thing, but running round the house on some sort of weird hyper phase. It's hilarious. DH busy doing bath at the moment. YAY!

What is it about actually having some decent sleep that makes one so exhausted? Honestly, one or other of the girls is usually up at least twice a night and I am fine. Now I've had two brilliant night's sleep and I could nod off where I sit!

Oooh, the bean thing I made today was so delicious, I feel compelled to write it down here. I think veggies would love it too. Basically, 60ml of water, 2 tablespoons of garlic oil, 1 heaped tbsp of dijon mustard and 4x400g cans of mixed beans or just 4 cans of different beans and season. Stir it in together and heat through gently, stirring occasionally. Absolutely yummy!

Jam - are you home yet?