Feb 2010 They're all walking and talking....and some are even sleeping. The babies are doing okay too.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

Pull up a comfy chair, grab a cuppa and a piece of cake, switch the monitors on low and let's PARTY.....!!!

did I tell you that SIL put DN on a time out, she's 18 months I did a judge.

Eek! I have a friend who uses the naughty step for her DS and he is a few months younger than mine. I don't know anyone else who does that - we all actually try to avoid saying 'naughty' and just remove and distract the child when they start to do something unacceptable.

My MIL was a much milder example of what you had to put up with. Don't they realise that we'd be happier and encourage spending time with them more if they weren't so grabby?

I am planning to re-read Unconditional Parenting and have started reading How to Talk... again. It does help remind me how to be less confrontational with DH.

Sorry you didn't enjoy Christmas PA. Hope you get the next visit from your ILs sorted out.

Hope everyone else is doing OK. We had a lovely Christmas at the ILs (sorry PA), then I collected my parents from the airport and took them home and spent a couple of days with them. Good job I did really, as my dad hadn't been well while he was away (they went to India for three weeks, which was amazing considering how poorly they have both been over the last few years), and my mum needed a bit of support. So I drove them home, unpacked and went to the supermarket, and took my dad to the doctor's. Then I came home so DH could go out one evening and it took me an astounding hour and a half to do bedtime because the house was in such a shambles I couldn't find anything. I was very patient with it all until I couldn't find DD1's inhalers, at which point I phoned DH and went ballistic. Maybe I need that book bear mentioned...

New Year was quiet, but we've had some lovely days just pottering about the house, and doing a few trips. The DDs have really recharged their batteries, though DD2 has - yet again - turned into a complete mummy's girl. Only I will do if she wakes at night (grr), and she gave DH quite a hard time while I was at my parents (which was for less than 48 hours). Still, she still looks so cute, we let her off. She is being a bit of a pain over functional things like nappy changes and getting dressed, but I don't think she would understand the naughty step yet so I use books and toys as distractions and do whatever it is without her really noticing (though she can now undress herself, so I have to re-distract her later on if she suddenly takes offence at having clothes on, for example, to avoid her taking her tights/top/trousers off). Which reminds me, she is still in some 9-12 month clothes. I was fretting about this, but have had a firm word with myself as she is clearly doing very well developmentally!

I'm swamped with work, mainly because I took a week off! But MIL is delighted to do some extra childcare so I can catch up.

Very me, me, me post, sorry. Just thought I'd update you all.

We don't do the naughty step but when at my mum, DH was removing DS from the table (ie pushing his chair away) until he calmed down and telling him the only way to sit back with us was to be nice. It turned out that it worked!

DS was a daddy's boy during those holidays only allowing him to put his shoes on, his jacket or straping him in the pushchair. I'm not complaining about it

Hmm, yes - naughty step isn't a great idea at such a young age IMO. I'm not sure the LO would "get" it. I think it's a useful idea to have up your sleeve if all else fails (once they're older), but I'd rather try other things first.

Yes, SB, we have been known to calmly get DD down from the table and tell her to go and play so we can finish our meal in peace if she's been causing a rumpus. She usually asks to go back in her chair at that point and is generally better behaved. Not the same as time out or naughty step, though!

BBB I'm sorry to hear your Dad's been poorly. I hope he's feeling better now. Not surprised you got narky - and impressed you held out for as long as you did.

Bc I've been re-reading some of my parenting books too. Very useful, there are always tips I'd forgotten about.
I'm currently reading Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fines which is absolutely fascinating (and a very digestible read, given that it's about cognitive science!) - highly recommended.

Sorry to hear about problems BBB and PA. Hope all settles again soon (and afraid I can't remember what was on the previous page). We had a lovely quiet few days before I went back to work yesterday. DH seems to have had a good couple of days at home with the boys and now we have until Monday together again. Working has been guilt free whilst knowing boys are safe and having fun with DH. He took both to soft play on his own yesterday - I haven' dared do that yet (but then he hasn't got a crap, wobbly pelvis from two lots of childbirth etc..)

I'm going to buy the books BC mentioned - mainly because we have just started using the 'thinking space' with DS2 which we have used with DS1 since about the age of 2. In fact, when he has bitten DS1, he has been plonked in the playpen (now replaced by a Christmas tree, hence moving to the thinking space) for the last few months. However, he sees DS1 doing 'thinking time', is using 5-6 words sentences and clearly does understand about sitting there (the only time he sits still), and says sorry afterwards.

I'd like to read up about other strategies because we've found the biting really hard to deal with - I don't believe that distracting him after that is enough as it is very clearly intentional. We also get scratching, hitting (usually with metal car in hand for added effect), kicking and face scrunching which all bloody hurt!! Any advice gladly received as DS1 didn't do any of this!! For general tantrums distraction/ignoring is great but such behaviours need something, if only for poor DS1 to see that it's not okay!! (Also, DS2 is now 14.3Kg and is only 1Kg less than DS1 so really throws his weight at him!!) Some days I wonder where I got this one from, especially with the angelic smile and generally cuddly nature . Still gorgeous.

IC How are you feeling? Keeping everything crossed.

Have just read the thread about SAHD not doing housework in the day and thanking my lucky stars that DH didn't expect much of me! I can't really remember, but I know that with DS1 I got very little done as he had to be upright due to the reflux. Those days seem a long time ago...

Happy New Year everyone! I have finally got to the end of the thread, waiting to see if DD2 will settle for an 'early' bedtime ( it's usually more like midnight) < shakes head in despair> No frantic yells as yet but i know they can start up after 20 mins or so, so we'll see.

And I've remembered why i tend not to update from my phone - still not got the hang of typing on it

Very quickly then, before i get too frustrated I will just quickly say stick to your guns PA; hope you're feeling well IC; BBB you sound like you have a lot on your plate; bethy sorry you're having to deal with biting on top of all DS1's health issues; DB I think our parents will always (or mostly) have different views how our DCs should be raised, but you're right we're the parents now and they have to respect our views; bc I keep meaning to get those books you mention. I shout too much at DD1 when i'm tired and it makes me sad.

Also mous well done for moving so close to Christmas, that must have been so stressful.

DD2 has just started up It's closer to her bedtime now so maybe with one last feed she'll go off

Also makes my eyes hurt staring at this little screen for so long.

PA and BBB sorry you had a tough time.

bethy I did time out from 18 months with DD1, still not doing it with DD2 (can you believe they are going to be 2 soon ). But I would guess there is about a year difference in their mental development. DD1 was very advance for her age and DD2 is still a baby. Their comprehension is nowhere similar either.
It did work very well for DD1 who was (still is) very very stubborn, and won't give up what she is doing before it is finished. DD2 usually is OK with a no or being removed from the situation.
DD2 was bitting and being brutal too but was much younger, I managed to mostly stop her by putting her away from me every time and a firm no. Now she is pushing, I am trying the same method, I still think she is not ready for time out yet. She does have to stop very soon though she can destabilised her sister so when she does it to a toddler he just goes flying...

Actually I am lying, if it was too much for me, I did put her in her cot until she calmed down from quite a young age (she is climbing easily out now), which would be considered a time out.

scones I am usually very stressed before doing things for the 1st time; I have moved so many times now that it is not really stressful for me. It is kind of my job since I have given up real work. (+ accountant, tax adviser, PA, daycare teacher, cleaning lady, shopping assistant, I was even a real estate agent for a while , and the school run was akin to a soldier march until now)

Can't remember what everybody else has said either , I don't have a new baby as my excuse either...

New place is fab, very quiet even being so central and it takes 20 min walk at DD2's pace to go to school. (shopping is closer too, I will have too much time on my hands ) after the run of birthdays is done.
Thanks for your support.

Are you all OK after during the gales?

bethylou re: housework I'd say I've been loading/folding washing for over an hour cumulative today and I've still not finished it. As for biting, perhaps it will subside as he adjusts to new diet? Did you say you thought he had some issues as well?

mous glad the new place is nice. To be fair to SIL if DN could understand more and she had used the technique properly i.e. adequately explained to her and stopped being ignoring her afterwards and still annoyed, I would have been a lot less judgy.

Was thinking about removing DDs dummy but think will at least wait until she's sleeping through again. DS has been having 2 hour naps in the late afternoon, i hope it continues. Although DD has got used to it and can rather angrily tell me to put him in his cot even when he's awake at that time

scones how you getting on with your two. After prolifically posting on the other thread I've hidden it for now. DS has been going to sleep quite late although more like 10:30/11, hoping as things settle after xmas it will get earlier.

BBB thinking of your family and I think its great when people get on with their ILs

BC You're right, we would see them more if they didn't want to monopolise her (MIL doesn't even normally want her own mother round at the same time). This upsets me as in the end they lose out and I do want the best by them as well. I always change my plans so they get the most time with her and don't even let on to them.

That's a good point, Mous, it does depend on the child's comprehension as to how effective time out/naughty spot will be. And yes, PA, Supernanny is very clear about keeping calm, explaining in simple terms before and after the naughty step is used, accepting the apology then moving on without bearing a grudge. I suspect a lot of people misuse the technique.

My Positive Discipline 0-3 book suggests using "positive" time-out - creating a space (with the child's involvement) where they can go to chill out /reflect etc. when they've got worked up - they talk about the parent suggesting it as a safe place to calm down for the child so it's not used as a punishment as such. Interesting take on the idea.

Mous, I'm glad to hear your pleased with your new place! Didn't you have some neighbour issues with the last one?

Lovely to hear from you Scones I hope life isn't being TOO exhausting for you at the moment.
I'm feeling okay, but am getting symptoms (funny taste in mouth, tender boobs, mild queasiness) which I didn't really get during the shortlived last pregnancy, so I'm putting that down as a hopeful sign. I've now filled out my form to go off to the midwifery service (and picked my NHS trust for the birth, which feels scarily previous.....). I put a note on the end requesting an early scan (I'm now between 5 and 6 weeks, so the week after next should be time enough to detect a heartbeat, assuming there is one). We shall see.

bethy lovely to hear from you, too. "Thinking time" is a nice way of framing time-out!! Aggression is a natural phase for many toddlers, isn't it? Tough to deal with, I should think. The book mentioned above has stuff on that. I seem to remember Toddler Taming had some useful suggestions about dealing with it too.

I've started on some serious brainwashing positive reinforcement when it comes to DD's eating. Lots of comments along the lines of "DD's a great eater - she loves eating lots of different things - she likes to eat carrots....." etc. etc. It's been inspired by my Delusions of Gender book which has loads of evidence about how strong the power of suggestion can be. DD's been a bit better with her eating the last couple of days, but whether that's just a coincidence or the positive reinforcement is starting to work, it's a bit early to say!

I've completely missed the thread about DHs and housework. Probably best, all things considered!

beth the biting doesn't sound good.

IC glad you have pregnancy symptoms!

mous I feel much the same about my two DDs, though I try not to compare them. Glad the move went well. Can you say where in the world you are now?

scones you sound much more sane than I would on midnight bedtimes!

PA what did you decide about the dummy?

stone are you feeling better?

Thanks for all the concern. I've clearly painted a much blacker picture than the reality, because I did really enjoy Christmas and New Year. Sadly, I think I'm coming to terms with my parents' deteriorating health, but doing what I do means that I am very practical about it and it doesn't really phase me. As for DH, well things are better generally, and I do feel we're on the up.

IC great that you have signs (maybe not so great that you feel queasy but still good news)

scones glad to hear you're doing fine

mous that's good that you like your new place and its location.

bethy when DS was bitting I use to remove him from me and tell him a firm no. Even now when he tests, he gets a firm told off. I cannot advise more, sorry.

I like the 'thinking space' idea but due to space restrictions, the step is easier for us!

I've just made chocolate and peanut butter cookies using some of the chocolate DS got for Christmas (1 santa and 2 advent calendars ).

DD gets worked up at times and I put her bed. Not normally- against her will, she tends to lie down walk around room-- quietly for 20 mins. If she carries on crying etc and isn't quiet I get her out. That could be construed the same way.

BBB I'm definitely going to wait until she's sleeping better. I think there's a development spurt happened, she's very wired at the moment, especially afternoon's. Speaking of which, she wakes from her nap and then often just cries. Doesn't want to get up, be picked up. If I manage to pick her up, she won't be put down If DS is asleep I just take my time with her but today their schedules seemed to clash. She can open and close all the room doors, turn on taps, work out simple gates. At playgroup today she kept somehow finding paint to shove her hands onto (even if it was paint already on a piece of paper) and then run to the bathroom to clean them

There was a prime moment in the summer where I think I could have removed them but with the moving and travelling we were doing, I thought DH convinced me it would be better to hold off. Now I think crying and lots of it will be involved.

I'm not giving DS a dummy, especially as now I think I've missed the window but he's clearly going to be a thumb sucker so am still really divided about it.

Interesting about the possible developmental spurt, PA - after a few months of excellent sleeping, DD is now waking up two out of three nights. I thought it may have been as a result of the extra attention she got when she woke (mainly because of her cold) over the Christmas period (not wanting her to yell and disturb others sharing the house, we stayed with her or took her into our bed), but now I'm wondering if there's something else going on too.

Since we've been home and without visitors, we're back to being much more hardline about night wakings. We go in and check she's okay, soothe her briefly then leave her to it. We might go back in one more time to reassure her, but otherwise we're leaving her. I don't like doing it, but the difference in how long it takes her (and us) to get back to sleep is astounding - the less we intervene, (no matter how gentle and well-meaning), the faster she goes back to sleep. Last night I think from DD waking and yelling for us to her going quiet again after DH had been in to check she was okay was a maximum of ten minutes. I do hope she'll go back to the uninterrupted sleep pattern she was doing in the couple of months or so before Christmas.....

her comprehension especially about DS seems to have changed as well. She does a lot of role play with her Christmas toys and copies me. I leave a lot of spaces in songs and she fills in the word. She selects the animal in eieio and then makes the right noises at the right part and knows her colours quite well now as well. A few weeks ago it was more hit and miss.

BBB She still has some 6-9 stuff if that helps?

I've just fired off my first email regarding jobs. My old prof send me info about a vacancy and also told the guy at the company. He emailed prof asked for my details and then emailed me. I've just asked for more information.

IC it's hard leaving them, but that's the lesson we learnt months ago (back in the US) but I console myself with the fact we've been led by her rather than sticking doggedly to one 'strategy'. Hope you get your early scan.

I totally agree that a 'quiet' or 'calm down' space is a good option.

I know we have been exceptionally lucky with DS's character. He never has tantrums, rarely whinges and actually likes sharing. The only way he was difficult was with his sleep (it's good at the moment but a few times in the past I have thought we've got it sorted for good and then it goes crap again) This does make me worry about my daughter-to-be. Surely we won't get so lucky twice. And it is just luck - I am not being a bighead, I hope it doesn't come over that way.

We've found a funny way to get him to eat more. We ask him if the spoon goes in his ear, in his nose, in his bellybutton etc. and when he laugs and says 'noooo' we ask him to show us where it goes and he eats it. He still hasn't twigged it's a ploy bless him.

There's another good book that I bought because someone on MN recommended it ages ago when I was still pregnant with DS called 'What Every Parent Needs to Know: The incredible effects of love, nurture and play on your child's development' by Margot Sunderland

SB The cookies sound yummy.

BBB I'm glad things are going well with you and DH. Also glad that your mum and dad managed their trip to India even if it did take it out of him rather.

IC Very reassuring that you're getting the symptoms. I haven't read Delusions of Gender but I'll put it on my list.

Hi everyone,

Big wave and will catch up soon.

DD2 goes ballistic if DH tried tries to go to her at night :(. She's such a mummy's girl. Though last night when I was doing bedtime (on my own), she wouldn't klet me put on her pyjamas but agreed to DD1 helping her. She's a monkey, but so cute and lovely, I can't help but laugh it off :)

And last night they both went to bed beautifully, which contrasted to the previous night when I'd eaten my dinner sitting in DD2's doorway because otherwise she was just screaming. Sometimes it's easier on my own than when DH is here as well...

They love testing us at this age, don't they BBB?!!

Bc hey, your DD might be even more placid and good-tempered than your DS, all being well!! And even if she isn't, I reckon a bit of feistiness is probably a good thing in a girl.....!
My sister's DD2 was a tricky baby (temperament-wise) and a major tantrum-thrower as a toddler, but she's now the best behaved angel child of the whole family. You can never tell which way they're going to go!! What's your EDD?
Thanks for the book reccy. Same author as "Why Love Matters" I think...?

Ah, yes PA - DD's mostly sorted out colours in the last few weeks too. Plus similar stuff to that you mention. She's noticeably matured in the last month, same as your DD. It's astounding to watch, isn't it? Like seeing a flower open in front of your eyes...

Wotcher fc!

How are things in Germany, BG?

DD slept through last night, thankfully. I'm hoping the waking and yelling habit is broken again, but I'm keeping my FX.
We had a friend of DD's over for lunch, which was very cute. They sat at the toddler table and ate together and didn't make a bad fist of sharing and turn-taking with the toys.
DD's also getting back into playing at the park, which is good as I have a feeling lack of outdoor exercise wasn't helping her wayward appetite for food.

DD was tired this morning and playing quite nicely plus I was indecisive so we've stayed in today despite the good weather.

I sent that email and they asked if I was free to go in next week!

PA, you're amazing! Good for you!

fc hi

PA fx for you.

BBB they, for sure, are testing us constantly.

IC If DS wakes up during the night (very rare) we leave him to cry as he gets more upset/unsettle if we intervene.

DS didn't nap today (at the astonishment of his key worker, especially as 2 days ago he napped for 2 hours!! ) but he went to bed at his normal time even if he looked tired.

I had to use my brain tonight by doing the new French menus for the pub! I wonder how many spelling mistakes I'll notice once they're printed

I've put DH and I on a diet as after our French holidays, his clothes are tighter (mine are fine), so tonight, it's a spiced cauliflower soup.

Waves to everybody else