FEB 2010 Coming on in leaps and bounds and little steps

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Where did our babies go?!
Anywhere and everywhere, the moments our backs are turned!!

My asthma doesn't like the idea of work... Been up since 5 and couldn't get back to sleep, then dd2 woke at 5.45, followed by dd1 at 6.15 having her first clothes crisis of the day when she found a hole in her favourite tights . Now, where's that coffee....

Good luck soc. Don't worry about the feminists (except IC) and let us know how it goes x

It's really hard not to laugh at dd2 when she has a tantrum. She has realised that quarry tiles are hard, so will now lay herself down carefully and then start her tantrum by kicking her legs and screaming

Ha ha! I don't think accepting a lower wage for a job that suits your lifestyle better is unfeminist, Soc! I'm sure most feminists would approve of you role-modelling the fact that women don't just stay in the domestic sphere to your DDs...
And congrats, btw! Sorry you had a crappy night with your asthma.

DD woke at 04.15 after a brief waking in the evening. She went back to sleep after an hour, then woke again 45 mins later. I think she was a bit cold because she nodded straight off again once I had her in with me. Pah. The temps at the moment are hard to judge and DD seems to be quite sensitive wrt her comfort zone. Too hot? Fidgets and can't sleep. Too cold? Ditto.
Anyway, I've been awake since 04.00 as a result. Marvellous (I'd woken just before her and was just about to drop back off again when....)

Thanks for all the good wishes everyone. I think I am still in denial.... Keep telling myself I haven't signed a contract yet so there is still time to hide under the duvet and pretend it's not happening

Some of dd2's favourite places In the wash basket or standing on a chair or table to look out for cats and birds...

Good luck today Soc! How very scary, but I'm sure it will all be fine

Am I a bad role model for my DD then IC With the low wages round here it's not worth my while getting PT work (minimum wage only) and I really don't want to put her in FT nursery. Don't want to work FT come to that I've never yet found a job I've enjoyed

Lovely pics Soc Aren't our DCs just so cute now!

Well I've got a full day ahead, a long walk to the jobcentre, lunch with a friend and playdate in the park with some other friends. It is FREEZING today though or it is inside anyway. Brrr. Come back April sunshine!

If you are, Scones, then so am I!
I don't think being a SAHM is unfeminist either. If a woman wants to (and is able to make it work financially) stay at home with her children - especially when they are tiny - then why shouldn't she? It's certainly what I would rather do, for as long as we can manage it.

Absolutely agree, being at home is a good thing if is seems the right thing to do Do think though it may well be a feminist issue that the price I have to pay for staying at home for two years is a massive cut in salary... I haven't exactly de-skilled in that time, on the contrary, I am an expert in multi-tasking, can function very well on no sleep, can deal with all sorts of tantrums (very useful in the area I work in - the most senior people tend to have a lot of them! ), I am much more focused on what I do (because I rarely get the chance to focus for long so have to make the most of it)... I think I should be paid more, not less!
Anyway, I am going to enjoy my last week as SAHM and have a lunchtime snooze... dd2 begged to go to bed at 20 to 12. No wonder, she was up before 6...

soc it might be a feminist issues but it might be the economic market as well, DH had a higher pay cut than that on his last job. Difficult to say in this crisis what is what, and some companies do behave appallingly.
Good luck.

Hello everyone!

It's been a while, we had an Easter from hell with DD sick and then me sick, and it's been manic since, but have tried to have a bit of a catch up here. Any major news that I might have missed?

I saw someone mentioned tantrums - yup, DD is having tantrums too - although only with me! She lies down (carefully), then kicks her legs and screams blue bloody murder. DH refuses to believe me as she doesn't do this with him.

TTC here too, although, having kept it a bit quiet for a while, we are now three months in and not making any headway, but am not worried yet, as we are having fun trying and I don't want that to stop! I've also cancelled all work trips away, which isn't doing me any favours at work, but means that I get to stay at home.

Back for a proper catch up later.

Interesting to read what people think about working vs SAHMs. I make very little money once I've taken out tax, NI, childcare and travel. I worked out how much worse off we'd be if I didn't work (including retaining some childcare as I think it's important for DD2 to go to nursery) and it wasn't very much. I'm in the lucky position of not having to work for financial reasons, and am also lucky in that I can do freelance work. I'm reluctant to keep DD1 in the level of wraparound care she has at the moment once she goes to school in September as she'll be doing longer hours there than she does in her current pre-school, but am finding it a very difficult decision to make as I enjoy my work and know my boss relies on me. I'm kind of afraid I'll disappear if I don't work.

It feels selfish to give up work and rely on DH's salary, but it feels equally selfish to carry on working and book DD1 into holiday clubs and rely on my ILs to be my back-up childcare.

All views welcome!

Sorry - catching up stangirl I am off now to listen to your programme before it goes off the iplayer.
I have a close friend who lost a relative to murder fairly recently. I think he feels very alone in his grief.

Why do you think it is selfish to give up work and rely on DH's salary BBB? (just curious) I can totally understand why you don't want to give up work that you enjoy - if I enjoyed work (and erm had a job) I wouldn't want to give it up either. But I can't see how it's selfish to rely on DH's salary if the financial difference isn't much.

Out of interest - how do people plan to cope with school holidays? It's a bit early to be worrying about it and who knows whether I'll have found a job by then but I am deeply interested in how on earth people cope. And still have time off with their partners, hopefully.

Hi fc sorry to hear of your Easter from hell Good luck with the TTC!

Great to hear from you fc, sorry you and DD were poorly though. Another one ttc, yipee!! Good luck.
How awful for your friend.

Soc your absolutely right about the feminist issue being how mothers lose money for being, well, mothers. And time and time again, it's the woman in a relationship who makes that sacrifice (loss of earnings, career prospects, pension contributions, status etc.) rather than the man. The fact that many of us want to be the primary carer of our children doesn't make it less of an issue.

DH offered to be SAHD if I wished to return to work, but I preferred not to for various reasons. I'm between careers anyway (my work as an EFL teacher hadn't really got to a "career" point) and DH needs to get a career properly established. But I'm still concerned about, for example, the loss of my pension provision our decision entails.

Agree with Scones, BBB - I think being part of a marriage/partnership means you're part of a team. Whoever earns the money to pay the family bills is immaterial, really (or should be). It's all shared, in my view. Some work has a monetary value, other work (childcare, own house-keeping) does not. But that shouldn't mean it should be valued any less IMO.
If you enjoy working, BBB, great! It's a shame that many women are also guilt-ridden about the choices they make. There always seems to be some sort of sacrifice when it comes to choosing to divide time between paid work and the children, doesn't there?!

Right, I've been killing a bit of time by ranting to let DD settle to sleep (she was a bit fretful and usually gets worse if she can hear me nearby) so I shall venture out and make my dinner.

sc it'll be fine.

BBB do what you think is right for you and your family.

fc good luck ttc

scones I'm already wondering the same as we don't have any family around. It may be the idea to work now as the LO are at nursery and then go for a term-time only job?

DS slept fine again last night and started in the toddlers' room today. He was fine, no tears. He however wondered why we were not going to the other room. I was more upset than him

SB if I get a place for dd2 at nursery (still waiting to hear...) she'll also go straight into the toddler room and not into the baby room. I am oddly upset by that, too...

As for school holidays? Yes, how DO people juggle it?? We also have no family and I wouldn't even know where to start looking for holiday clubs. And won't I be too late now for this summer and everything is booked out?

Popping in for a catch up as I feel like I hadn't even been able to read for about a fortnight! DS1 has had chicken pox, I've been doing the annual planting of all the instant garden (in the dark mostly, as you do..) and the computer is on the blink.

Anyway, have read all about the sicknesses - yuk! -, attempts to conceive - go girls go!, am very jealous of Stan's interesting sounding house and lol at the flower eating. Hi to all of you without a personal mention in my rather brief reposnse!!

I love my work (advisory teacher for pupils with SEN in mainstream) but it is very difficult to juggle childcare (even though, as things stand at the moment I will have school holidays - this may well change or I may not be in this job at all) and working (especially with two cases of chicken pox in a fortnight!) Luckily, DH has been taking it in turns with me to have a day/half day off and my Mum has been helping out with some half days this week which has been great. I don't know what the answer is really - the hospital appointments have been a nightmare for me to try and work round, and yet obviously come first (all 5 of them in 13 weeks of last term!)

I go to work to keep myself sane - I think I do a good job at work and am well respected by my schools and colleagues. DH gives me loads of praise at home, but I never meet my own ridiculously high standards and find looking after two mad children quite stressful (more often than I think I should). Moneywise, it is worth me being there at the moment but it causes almost as many problems as it solves. Maybe we should solve the problem (PA's research skills -and others' obviously), sell it and all make our fortunes so we can do exactly as we wish. Not sure what part I could play unless you need someone to do presentations on it?! BBB could obviously write the articles... Seriously, good look SC with returning to work. There are definitely pros (lunch breaks, private toilet stops, using one's grey cells..) but it's not an easy ride by any means.

Enough for now - am about to try and get onto Facebook as I have an important message to post on our page - not nearly as exciting as it sounds and I'm not sure who it will exclude.

On antibiotics again for more sinusitis so feel free to drink my for me. Will gladly exchange for chocolate!

Thanks ladies for all your nice messages. beth I could have written a lot of your post myself! I also have a good job I enjoy, am well respected by my colleagues and manager, and can find looking after two DDs a bit stressful at times. But I would really like to be able to walk DD1 to school and support her learning, and struggle with keeping them in 8am-6pm care two days a week (and one more if you count the day my ILs have them).

Scones wrt holidays, we're very lucky in that DD2's nursery is open 48 weeks a year, and DD1's pre-school operates a holiday club (it is co-located with the local children's centre). Ask at your local SureStart children's centre Soc and they will be able to point you in the right direction. Ours is very cheap, is operated by the pre-school staff (who DD1 adores) and is absolutely lovely. DD1 loves it there, and also goes there for her wraparound care (breakfast and tea clubs as she calls them). It also does wraparound care for three local schools (including the one DD1 will go to) so offers fantastic continuity of care.

I'm also very lucky in having ILs a 20 min drive away, who are both retired and very happy to be my back-up childcare. But I find the constant juggling very stressful (beth does this sound familiar?!) as it falls solely on my shoulders to know where everyone is at any one time as well as do all the house stuff. I think a lot of couples work like this - the woman is the default carer so must organise childcare for when she cannot perform her duties (ie. must opt out), and the man opts in!

Don't tell your feminists that I said that IC!

Well, yes the old work debate.

I work outside of the home (well half from home, half outside of the home).

This debate only really becomes heated because society does not value childcare as highly as it should. It is important to remember that being a SAHM is unpaid, but plays just as important a function in society as say being a lawyer or a shop assistant (well it's even more important in many respects). Women have worked hard to have the choice to do this so don't ever feel 'got at' for making your choice.

It's not always straightforward though, and often men's careers advance further, while women's halt or even decline, so for some families there is no choice, the father goes out to work while the mother stays at home, as economics dictate (and costs of childcare too).

Why do I work? I ask myself this question every single day. Sometimes I am so fulfilled by my job and I see the point of the last 12 years of study and hard grind. My job comes with massive highs and lows. The highs are very seductive, the lows are soul destroying. When we're on a low - I wonder why I put DD into childcare to do this.

My other big motivators are my mother. She was a SAHM who was totally lost when my father died and was unemployable (she had no real skills either).I work in a very, very male dominated business. I am one of the most senior women in my profession in Europe and certainly the only one who is married/has children, and relatively high profile. I am quite driven by this, I don't want young girls in my profession to think the only way to the top is to make the ultimate sacrifice of no family or life outside work. I am a pretty crap mum who gets very stressed out at home, so I want DD to know that I was good at something and I changed attitudes, even in the smallest way.

So, there you go!

Oh, yes, only one DC here, but I still echo hat BBB and Bethy say. The juggling is so, so stressful.

DH is wonderful - he really is, but we have no family close by and we are often totally and utterly scuppered by this. We have to cancel things at the last minute, and stuff for 'us'- even going to the cinema or nights out with friends without DD becomes very, very hard (and expensive).

fc you are not a crap mum! As you say, you are setting a wonderful example to your children in juggling everything as you do - yes, it is stressful at times (sometimes leaving the house in the morning descends into chaos here!) but you keep it all going.

And (intrigued) what do you do?! You sound Very Important (and Very Clever, as do many people on this thread).

I am not Important at all! I work in a very marginal, small industry, that will have no relevance to any of your lives. I am not Very Clever either, just have a very specialised knowledge of what I do.

My job does allow me access to important people though which can be interesting. Friends who are much Cleverer, better paid and do more Worthy jobs are often amazed at the people I get to hobknob with.

Honestly, I don't know how you do it working and being a mum, it must be exhausting.
I don't think there is a right or wrong thing to do. It is personal and changes overtime.
There will have been no way in my 20s or 30s that I would have stop working and been a SAHM.
But then even with my massive diploma I am paid peanuts so when DD1 was old enough I would have had to pay out of DH salary to go to work. Plus I really enjoyed DD1 and wanted her to speak french. What also helped the decision is that I didn't have a job to go back to. My last contract finished when I was 7 months pregnant (surprisingly not many people offered to hire me ).

I don't think it is selfish to be a SAHM, because you are working quite hard for your DH, but then I did financially support DH for 4 years when he was a PhD student. It is not a pay back but it helps people put things in perspective.

My situation is different, now has as an expat I am the only stable "thing" in my DDs life, and I feel it is important for me to be at home for their well being. I will probably have no pension and will probably be unemployable soon, but hey that is life. The way things are going nobody will have a pension by the time I reach retirement.
Like IC in am in between careers.

Most people I know make it work because of the grand parents, nanny/CM or au pair. Very difficult to juggle 2 working parents without any extra support. Especially that the dad is usually pressurised not to take any holidays for caring after sick children. That a real feminist issue.

nap over!

Is hobknob even a word/expression? Did I just make that up?