are you going to vote yes or no in the referendum on voting systems?

[edam]

Apparently on 5th May next year we'll be asked if we want to keep first past the post or go for alternative vote.

Personally I don't like AV where you rank candidates in order of preference, as it causes odd things to happen. FPTP isn't perfect but neither is AV.

But my main reason for - probably - voting 'no' would that I'm pissed off with the Lib Dems. This is their cherished prize for giving the Tories cover for savage attacks on the poor and public services and betraying many/most of their voters (and people who were tempted to vote for them). So fuck 'em.

I'm voting no because the most popular candidate is a more worthy winner in my opinion than the least unpopular candidate. And I don't see how it is fair that in the majority of constituencies, a BNP supporter gets a second choice, but a Tory or Labour voter does not.

But I'm not hugely bothered. The constituency link is maintained, which is the most important element in my opinion.

Much more important is equalising every constituency size to within 1000 voters or so.

This has the pleasant side effect of removing some, though not all, of the pro-Labour bias in the current FPTP system

Oh, that old canard. The current system is NOT biased in favour of any particular party. The entirely independent Boundary Commission changes the size of constituencies all the time in an attempt to keep up with population fluctuations (mine changed this time around and links two towns which have nothing to do with each other at all, just in order to get the numbers right).

It's not Labour's fault that the Tory vote stacks up in the shires nor that the Tories tend to win with bigger majorities. Maybe they should put more effort into persuading people in non-Tory areas and into getting their vote out in these areas?

I'll vote yes because it is the first step in giving us a real PR system where every vote counts and it's worth bothering to vote

edam

Here is a link which explains it very clearly

ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/electoral-bias

i'm voting for the alternative.

still don't think it's a perfect system, but it's a little bit fairer than first past the post.

I want to know exactly what they're proposing. I'm broadly in favour of PR and STV, think constituencies are important and think FPTP produces skewed results....

But AV doesn't necessarily mean it will be better. I would vote against AV+ (because it's purely theoretical) or a list system as I like the local voting for a specific candidate.

I'll vote yes. At the moment I don't vote in GEs because my vote doesn't count. I don't think it's the best answer to FPTP but it's a start

The Lib Dems have shown they are not the 3rd party, which is such a sad state of affairs as it's bad for democracy.

Problem is that no one will know what AV looks like until/if it's implemented as impossible to predict people's first,second choices.

Does anyone know if there has to be a minimum turnout in a referendum for the result to be valid? Few people bother to vote in the local elections as it is and I can't see this referendum boosting the turnout.

"I'm amazed by the apathy. This post has been here for 7 hours, but only has 6 replies."

a) we don't yet know what question will be asked

b) while it is posted here, there has as yet been nothing proposed in Parliament, and while it is likely to get voted for, there may be various amendments (or a surge in numbers to keep the 'First past the Post' system in place, in which case there may still be no referendum)

c) whatever the weather where you are, the weather in many parts this side of the Irish Sea has been nice and sunny, so perhaps Saturday afternoon is being used for "outdoor" activities, and if indoor, with Wimbledon Women's Final on TV, there may be plenty of other distractions to MN.

FWIW I see lots more activity in the evenings than during the day, and Saturdays register as perhaps the least busy "day" of all.

FWIW, I will wait to see what the question is, if it gets through a vote. It will also depend (since I am in Wales) as to what objections are made from the Welsh Assembly Government and Scotland's Parliament, as to whether it will go ahead in May 2011.

Just seems far too early to discuss, in my view, as there's a long way to go before we can be sure there will be a referendum that day.

ilovemydogandMrObama - "The Lib Dems have shown they are not the 3rd party"

Sorry, but could you clarify for this thicko (me) just what you mean ? It should be quite clear that with the Conservatives being very strongly in favour of FPTP, the Labour party on the fence (they proposed AV but deep down many MPs prefer FPTP) and the Lib Dems the only ones who are completely against FPTP, it seemed an odd statement. Plenty of other policies where there are differences too.

GiddyPickle - "In lots of areas though a third party let alone a fourth or fifth one barely exists"

631 Conservative Party
631 Labour Party
631 Liberal Democrats
557 UK Independence Party - UKIP
341 Independent
337 British National Party
315 Green Party
107 English Democrats Party
71 Christian Party - Proclaiming Christ's Lordship
59 Scottish National Party
40 Plaid Cymru - Party of Wales
34 Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition
27 Official Monster Raving Loony Party
23 Socialist Labour Party
20 Scottish Green Party
18 Alliance - Alliance Party of Northern Ireland

Those figures were for the number of constituencies that had candidates from the different parties, shown on YourNextMP.co.uk (up to the 2nd of July, but I got error 404 today so had to view a copy from a search engine).

While some constituencies, esp in N.I., may have a tiny number of candidates, there seem quite a few hundred with not just a third but a fourth and fifth candidate may be found.

Sure, there are areas where there may be small numbers of supporters or members of a party, and no 'office' (and people complained about a candidate from a nearby county but not the local town) but there certainly were plenty of candidates even in some small constituencies (like mine in N Wales which had 6). There were over a dozen in some city areas (when you include the raving loonies).

Still incline to voting 'no' for the reasons giddy gives - we've ended up with a coalition government that represents no-one, certainly not any of the people who voted for the Lib Dems (bar those who are prepared to sacrifice everything for PR - and AV isn't really PR anyway).

can't speak for ilovemydog but Lib Dem behaviour in office has not been that of a party that is distinct from the Tories. Which Tory policies have they tempered, exactly?

At least FPTP is decisive (normally). I live in Belgium which seems to have an impenetrable voting system with candidates for parliament/senate, and they have different positions on the ballot papers. I will be voting no.

I just meant that in the past, the Lib Dems were opposed to government policies and were an active part of the opposition. For instance, the war in Iraq and tuition fees to cite recent examples. Lib Dems won a number of university towns (Bristol, Cambridge) in the 2005 election based on their tuition fee protests.

The Lib Dems used to have some really great, innovative ideas. Seem to remember in their manifesto absolutely ages ago, were proposals including a Freedom of Information Act, a British Bill of Rights and some interesting ideas about taxation.

Am not a Lib Dem, but admired a lot of their policies and their challenges to the government.

I can't see them as an alternative party anymore, which is such a shame. Bad for democracy and bad for the 2 party system as there isn't a viable 3rd way, imo.

Currently I would vote against free beer & in favour of setting fire to fluffy kittens if I thought it would piss off the Lib Dems.

Not a terribly mature attitude I know, but bollocks to them. Grrrr.

@ raven. Agree! (Well, maybe not the fluffy kittens...)