im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

[em83]

god i feel so depressed about the threatened cut to ctc, i have been following the news religiously about this new emergency budget, and have just read an updat which was posted tonigha 22.10 which states that incomes £30.000 or over will not be entitled to ctc

im so pissed off with this and feel so anxious

According to a report but the IFS they said that 'The child elements are withdrawn as income rises, so that roughly the richer half of families with children do not receive them, and no party is proposing to make cuts to these.'
Obviously that was before the coalition and we all know they don't always stick to what they say before being elected. The coalition is a good excuse to do what they want without total blame.

Anyway i was thinking, if they are cutting tax credits entirely, surely the papers would have had a field day with families that could loose thousands a year rather than their stories of loosing £545.

'The Liberal Democrats want to make larger cuts by withdrawing the family element as soon as the child element has been withdrawn. For a 1-child family, this would mean that tax credits would not be paid to families with a combined income of around £25,500 if implemented today; each additional child would increase this value by around £6,080'

So even the Lib Dems weren't talking of scrapping them all from £25K.
So maybe family/child element won't be cut right away?

'The Liberal Democrats want to make larger cuts by withdrawing the family element as soon as the child element has been withdrawn. For a 1-child family, this would mean that tax credits would not be paid to families with a combined income of around £25,500 if implemented today; each additional child would increase this value by around £6,080'

where is this info from ?

Just seen Ewe's post.

"We should be targeting our frustration at the system at the companies who get away with paying absolutely fuck all so that the state HAVE to step in and subsidise salaries with tax credits."

Targeting companies will only drive jobs abroad in a lot of cases. They are exploiting the global free market. That's the problem with globalisation. Why would companies pay a premium for UK people to do the work when they can get it at lower cost elsewhere? They exist purely and simply to make money.

Also agree with wannaBe.

I would love to have 3 children, but we can't afford it. We are wavering a little about TTC number 2 at the moment until we see what sort of a tax increase DH will get hit with. We are above the threshold for TC, but not so far above that life is a bed of roses.

I get annoyed when people say 'oh but they don't get xyz, so shouldn't they get some help?'. Why? Benefits (and TC are benefits no matter how it's dressed up) are there to protect people from sinking when things go wrong. When they lose a job, or get long term sick or whatever it might be. We shouldn't be in this position where families are relying on state money year after year after year to fund their lifestyle.
All TC do is allow companies to get away with paying their employees shitty wages, rather than rewarding them properly.

Anyone with a job at the moment would be mad to give it up unless the increase in childcare costs would mean they defaulted on the mortgage or something. This is not a short term problem and if you have a foot on the ladder somewhere you need to keep it there, especially if there is any pension contribution involved.

We would be entitled to ctc but we don't claim. We chose to have children, we chose the level of our mortgage, we chose what career paths to take knowing what our income would be...so we live within our means, just like our parents did and their parents before that.

It's not fascist to say people shouldn't have children if they can't support them themselves, it's just how it should be. That's how we've become the welfare state we are, everyone expects money from the state for something.

From report by the IFS
here

I think ax Credits have been a terrible thing in the main. The fact that people are actually saying they will reduce hours or give up work just shows how badly wrong this system has gone.

What is the point of looking to the future/having a foot in the ladder if the short term leaves you up shit creek and homeless?

Well done for never having life take you up the arse and ruin all your plans.

"geek please look at the 3rd message on this post as im not certain what is defined as net income"

Your gross income (including tax and NI) minus what you pay in childcare. If your salary before tax is £30k p.a. that is your gross income. If you pay 5k per year childcare your net income (for CTC calculation purposes) is £25k.

You'd understand it much better if you went to the site I recommended earlier on Onine CTC Calculator and entered your details. You could also see if you'd been underclaiming.

Part of the problem is that it has become socially acceptable to be on benefits.

There are still old people who resist going to hospital because they think they are being taken to the work house!!

We should stop thinking that the state has to subsidise us. It should only be there for people in genuine hardship.

My parents dragged bought up 6 children on one wage, in the south east on less than 25k a year. No benefits for them. My mum was ashamed when one year we had to have free school meals. She still has trouble thinking about it.
Of course the food police would have a problem with the beans on toast and egg and chips we survive on at times!
I had a brilliant childhood. Probably happier than some of my well off friends I talk to now.

Not so much the family on tv last year getting 26k in benefits. Of which most was disability allowance because he was an alcoholic!!!!

Yes, lets go back to when we demonised children/families for being unlucky/poor etc.. What a fab idea!!!

Ronshar you are right.

The point I was making was that some people who work hard would still be in poverty if they had children without some support from the state. That should not mean they should remain childless in my view.

I'm saying I personally wouldn't want to live somewhere children are given very few opportunities when it isn't their fault that they have been born into a disadvantaged situation.

I am not saying I think it is morally correct to have 4 children when you know you are struggling with one.....BUT it would require some kind of fascist approach to stop people from having children. Not acceptable in any circumstances imo. Nor is it acceptable to have children living in poverty, whether it's someone's 'fault' or not.

And yes, what about those of us whose marriages didn't work out and there was nothing we could do? My older two children were conceived when I was happily with my then dp and we had the means to support them together.

Consider, too that children are our future (not just an expense) and those from poorer backgrounds have potentially as much to offer the world as those from affluent families. And on that basis I think it is reasonable for them to be supported if they need to be by the state.

Stretch.

That is so far from what I am trying say.
I mean that as a society we should stop thinking the government is responsible for our welfare.
IT ISNT. WE ARE.

I really dont think that it is wrong to provide for your family yourself.

Do the people who shout the loudest have sky TV?
A Flat screen TV?
Two cars?
DSi?
Ipod?
iphone?
ETC.
Does anyone need those things or is it because we see others with them and want them for our selves.

I would love an ipad. Cant afford one so wont get one.
Simples.

I know that some people have not alot but some really do.
Genuine hardship should not be stigmatised but those that just want extra stuff should get it themselves.

Oh dear I said simples.
I am really sorry

Errr, you said the FSTV word!!

Most people I know on benefits have a nice tv because they have it on credit, which is so easy to get nowadays. And yes, it's only my experience, but so is yours.

When I was on IS, I would have loved a playstation 2. Couldn't have afforded it so didn't get one. Can't really see your logic there.

Lol!

I'm pleased the Government is finally going to do something about our welfare culture. I find it shocking that 9 out of 10 families with children receive tax credits. I don't receive any tax credits myself and that is how it should be, why should others have to subsidise my children?

I know of several people on very good incomes who use their tax credits to pay for holidays and other luxury items which is not surely not what the system was designed for. I know there are lots of people on here who say they rely on them which I find very sad. Its shocking that the majority of people now seem unable to support themselves or their families but rely on others to support them.

I agree with some of what you say ronshar, there is a lot we don't actually need.

But society is responsible to look after and protect its most vulnerable members who can't look after and provide for themselves for whatever reason.

chil great site, but i dont see how they take childcare into consideration ??

It's not a case of relying on TC to 'fund a lifestyle'. It's a case of relying on it to survive and keep some form of dignity in that you are at least working and not relying solely on DSS handouts. I never asked my ex to bugger off with a younger woman and pay me nothing. I never asked my clients to cut their expenditure budgets due to the credit crunch and thereby reduce the amount of work I get from them. I never asked potential employers to discriminate against me because I've been self-employed for 15 years and am over 50.

I have worked bloody hard, through the night sometimes when the work is there, and brought up two kids on my own with bugger all input from their father. I continue to work hard, canvassing for work on a daily basis, going to college in the evenings to get a teaching qualification in the hope that (as I have a degree) I might be able to pick up a few hours teaching per week as a way of supplementing my income. A course which I have to pay for by the way. Living in a rented house, scrimping and scraping day in day out. I cannot afford to buy luxuries of any kind - cosmetics, haven't bought any new clothes for two years, haven't been to a hairdresser in 10 years - not that I care about any of that, but it can be bloody hard going sometimes - sleepless nights tossing and turning with the sheer worry of it all.

Lifestyle? Yeah right. I'd love some of those who are better off to actually experience what it is like to live like this all the time.

Dont get me started on credit

To be honest without WTC & CTC we would have lost our home 2 years ago. My dh had to wind up his previously thriving business because the banks withdrew his credit.
He had to retrain, still is, and I was heavily pregnant at the time.
So life came and bit us on the butt.

Now we are close to getting everything back again and will no longer be claiming wtc etc.
We didnt claim everything we were "entitled" (sp) to because we didnt need all of it.

I agree we can only go on our own experience of life.

Fontella. It sounds like you should be really proud of what you have achieved.
You could have sat back and not worked at all and just held out your hand. But you didnt.
You still are not.
I bet your children are very proud of you as their mother.