im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

[em83]

god i feel so depressed about the threatened cut to ctc, i have been following the news religiously about this new emergency budget, and have just read an updat which was posted tonigha 22.10 which states that incomes £30.000 or over will not be entitled to ctc

im so pissed off with this and feel so anxious

above should say you can be on around 35-40K

I can not stand the smug "you shouldn't have children if you can't afford them" its not even a proper argument. Are you saying the children (like a decent education in this country) are to be a priviledge of the rich?

What do you suggest you do if you're partner loses their job or pisses off with someone else - you can't put a baby back once its here! Maybe poor peoples kids should just be taken into care and auctioned off to the highest bidder.

I have 3 kids and haven't been able to afford either one of them...guess what..nice, happy, generous kids with (hopefully) a bright future ahead of them. The thought of a world full of overpriviledged, spoilt little rich kids is a very depressing thought.

I really can't see the point in getting upset over this though until people really know what is going to happen. Just because the tabloids say that it is so, doesn't mean that it is.

'So you could earn 25K and have 6 children you get £10 a week (once they are all over 1)'

You would get far far more than that. Over £150 a week would be more accurate. (Haven't checked but have seen alot of examples and know people who get that much).

Unfortunately @electra the reality is that a large family is really only possible these days if you have a) a big income and can finance them yourself or b)zero income and qualify for the maximum in benefits. It's not the poor who aren't allowed to have children, it's the people on moderate incomes who can't afford them.... one of the many reasons why the average age for new mothers is rising year on year and why the typical family size is relatively small.

Agree totally, 8Ace.

The thing that mainly worries me is if there is a loss of help towards childcare. We don't get a huge amount by any means but the bit that we do get makes it financially viable for us to both work.

I stand corrected but how come we got £10 a week when we had one child and we earned about 28K

We now have 4 children and still get £10 a week (well £20 as DS is under 1)?

It was someone on the helpline who told me this BTW (although we all know what the "helpline" is like)

8ace of course people shouldn't have children if they can't afford them.

There is of course a vast difference between someone who loses their job and struggles to support the children they already have, and someone who carries on having more children despite the fact they are struggling to support the children they already have.

People seem to have lost their sense of personal responsibility in this country. Want to buy a house you can't afford? oh well take out a 125% mortgage and then blame the mortgage lender when you go into debt and can't afford the repayments because they shouldn't have lent you the money.

Want a holiday? Oh well put it on the credit card and then blame the credit card company when you can't afford the repayments because it is obviously their fault that they let you borrow money you couldn't afford.

Want another child even though you're already living on the breadline and can't afford to support the ones you already have? Oh well just carry on and claim a bit extra from the government, and how dare they tell you you can't.

There are people living in genuine financial difficulties in this country. But by the same token there are people with far too much of a sense of entitlement and no sense of personal responsibility. And it is those people, the ones who have four, five, six kids and expect the government to provide that make things worse for those who are genuinely in need.

And just to reiterate, I'm not referring to those who have fallen on hard times since having children - children which they could afford to support at the time - I'm referring to those who have children they already can't afford to support and then consciously decide to have more and feel that it is the responsibility of others, i.e. the government, and therefore by definition other taxpayers, to take responsibility for them.

So WFTC the help towards childcare stops completely at over 15K so say your partner earned 18K and you wanted to go and work part time or even full time, you would be no help towards childcare at all?

Never claimed WFTC so don't understand how it works?

sweetkitty, the help towards childcare doesn't stop at 15k but it reduces the more you earn. We earn a lot more than that but still get a v small % of childcare paid for. It really makes a difference to us.

i am confused wtf

my dh earns 35k and i dont work so what does that mean for us.we have two young dds
we rely on the ctc?

any thoughts?

will we carry on getting the same amount?

Sweetkitty - assuming you didn't have your 4 children year after year, but spaced out over a period of about 8 years (when TC came in, I think), it could simply be that the system, coupled with your different circumstances, has changed a lot between your first and your fourth, and that you didn't watch the small print, so to speak.

We aren't entitled to wftc btw. Only the child and childcare element.

Not sure what you have been told but the best way to work out if you are recieving the correct amount is to go on the tax credits calculator.

So if you are in financial hardship and fall pregnant should you have an abortion? Finances change..could you live with yourself if you did this and then your circumstances changed?

If people didn't outstretch themselves with big whopping mortgages cos they are so worried about schooling then they wouldn't be so skint.

I live within my means no big debts here thankyou very much.

wiki has a good explanation. Better than me!!

here

allshoppedout, no one will know for definate until the budget is released. It is all speculation. At 35k I would suspect the amount will be reduced or cut completely.

I am even more confused now, we have been getting the same amount since DD1 was born 6 years ago (with the odd £10 a week extra every time we had a baby).

We have a 6,4 2 yo and a baby, DP earns 45K a year and I don't work. We get £10 a week plus the extra £10 baby element. If I use entitledto.com this is what we are supposed to receive?

In fact last year we were told we had been overpaid so it went down to £35 per 4 weeks even though nothing had changed.

I really don't like the Tax Credits system it is far too confusing (of just me) there has got to be a fairer system somewhere?

I don't see how you can tell between the geniuine people who have fallen on hard times, and the ones that just "breed" (HATE that term!)

Surely it would cost sooo much more money to interview and check every person than to just keep it how it is.

any thoughts

I think the reason your payments have remained roughly the same year on year, sweetkitty, is that, although you've had more children, your DH's salary has also risen quite dramatically in 6 years, so you are/were entitled to less.

Just to play devils advocate for a minute!

Surely as responsible adults, before you TTC a child, you ask yourselves can we afford another baby/child. If the answer is not really then you put off for a few years or not have another one???

Just because we can have children does it give us the absolute right to have children?

Why should people who chose not to have any children or restrict to one or two, subsidise through their taxes, those people who have three, four, five children just because they want to??

Are we teaching our children how to be responsible adults if we rely entirely on the state to pay for them?

I have three and will have to go back to work very soon in order to pay for them all. I dont mind as that is the choice I made when I had my third child.

Just looking at my tax credit decision for this year. There are 3 elements to Tax Credit

Fists is Working Tax credits (other than childcare) but because of of our income not eligible for this.

2nd is the basic element which is £547.50 (if I lost this is would be no hardship it amounts to about £40odd pound a month and tbh I am trying to get our youngest out of nappies for nursery in September, so this would even itself out money wise.

The 3rd is the total Child Tax Credit elements which is around £6700 but due to income yet again is reduced.

So yet again what are they getting rid of, the basic family or all of it, because if it is all then families would be losing more than the £545 a year as quoted in the papers.

This is getting so confusing I am off for a rest.

Here you go sweetkitty, look at the 2nd table lower down.

I know it is 2008, but it gives a good idea.

here

we dont get wtc just ctc
how can they cut it altogether especially if one is at home with the kids and doesnt work!!!