Dave's cuts are going be deep and they will hurt

[FellatioNelson]

I've been hearing this all day on the radio. I can't take the suspense any longer. They are going to affect the lives of 'every one of us'

I feel like a person wincing and clenching my teeth in anticipation of the big fuck-off needle the school nurse is wielding, and I'm next in the queue....

Come on then, what's it going to be?

But Lenin the top 1% is anyone earning over £100k; surely we have to make a distinction between those people who just scrape over the line and those earning millions?

And for those earning over £100k, taxes have recently risen fairly dramatically - loss of personal allowance, 50% tax rate and - from 2011 - loss of interest relief on pension contributions. Of course they will also take a hit from CG and NI rises like everyone else.

There is a fine balance between paying their fair share (already top 1% account for something like 25% of the tax haul) and punitive taxation; this has been tried before, and it didn't work.

Furthermore, in purely practical terms, there are only half a million people earning more than £100k so the net does have to be widened surely?

Completely agree with both your points above minthumbug.

DOn't forget also that most of them are mates with Dave

wubblybubbly, not only do the very wealthy not create their wealth without the help of their workers, it's our society that also helps.

e.g. the Morrison's founder wouldn't have been able to build such a big supermarket network if it wasn't for the roads that tax payers finance.

and other examples...

But the employees - and society in general - don't support business because of their deep desire to make the employer wealthy. It is reciprocal. We facilitate business, they employ people. That's why it just doesn't make sense to impose punitive taxation or say that they should all bugger off abroad.

LadyBlaBlah - are you saying that you can only earn over £100k if you are from a privileged background? I don't think that's true at all.

No I'm not saying that

However it is a truism that you are more likely to earn over £100k if you are from a privileged background

Well then let's look at raising children's aspirations rather than demonising the wealthy.

It's not an exclusive club and perpetuating the myth that 'it's not for the likes of us' isn't doing anyone any favours.

'Well then let's look at raising children's aspirations rather than demonising the wealthy.

It's not an exclusive club and perpetuating the myth that 'it's not for the likes of us' isn't doing anyone any favours. ' very true although arguing that access is equal would be silly; a child raised on a=n estate in a trown with collapsed industrial heritage and no jobs such as I was can easily grow up never ever meeting anyone from their world who 'made' it, or like I did not even knowing that university accepts kids from state schools and has funding systems- if you don't see it how do you know?

Plus not everyone is equal: ds2 won't go to Uni. he simply is not that academic. he might make it via hard work and actually does have an area of exceptional talent IMO but( the inute you wipe out all academic careers you do remove a good % of well paid avenues- medicine, business, even teaching 9which somewhere such as I live is a well paid career).

Anyway I have come up with an idea, it won't save much but it will stop waste and ofer some protection to kids of poor working fdamillies who may not get benefits aimed at them: scrap CB, give all kids free school meals intead. that way you know they've all had a hot meal and it cannot be spent on fags by the IMO small % of parents who do so. And maybe then those of us a bit less lucky can't be assumed to be blowing our income either- win-win.

Would you "transfer" CB into free meals when children enter into education or would the ones not in education yet get nothing?

I completely agree SMA; raising aspiration rather than vilifying those at the top (economically speaking).

I like your idea of universal free school meals (removing any perceived stigma apart from anything else) but am sure that scrapping CB to pay for it would leave many worse off - school dinners are only £2 per day around here, and a packed lunch could be provided for less than that.

Good Q (and tehre's another aspect that would need care I will mention)

i;dprobably attach a surplus to Tax credits in the way that the under one payment is, thereby meaning that no child doesn't receive but an entire department of admin could be closed down. it would also means test at the highjest earnings level- anyone getting any tacx credits will get but no TC = no Cb-as-was. It's need to added to CTC for IS claims too, but you'd still be protecting a key group of kids IMO and the entire admin would be removed.

i'd also probably givce a payment to cover sumemr hols, in same way (not my idea, something a policy group I knew was campaigning for anyway for famillies with kids on free school emals who found summer ahrd to finance).

Agree with Minthumbug (about the middle income trap) and Earthworm.

Man on phone moaning to Jezza Vine today that mooted rises in tuition fees at uni is an upper-class conspiracy by His Hamminess to keep disadvantaged working class kids out of higher education and to perpetuate the class divide. What a load of bollocks. Disadvanataged kids will get help with their fees, and extra help with living costs over and above the standard student loan.

The rich kids will still be able to go because Daddy can pay. The ones who lose out are the lower and middle-income middle classes. Again! Those parents get no help, but they can't afford to foot the bill so all the burden is on their child. So the kids most likely to have to ask themselves 'can I afford to go? are the children of middle-imcome people.

Fellation true wrt to middle income kids, though I reckon that ecepting those on very low incomes, if both aprents are working then middle income at student finance level is pretty much anyone.

''From each according to his means and to each according to their needs'' wouldn't it be wonderful.''

Nah Riv, they could do what tehy do ehre- central cooking and distribution: school could easily have a nmicrowave for your dd's adn if i remember right you make and freeze meals to reheat in hospital? Our school makes special diet food for ds3 and ds1 in advance and heats i; where's the difference?

FIo that's somewhere about it I think- I remember Dh was on £22k when I started at Uni and breathing a sigh of relief so must be in that region

"My point was that anyone earning £40-60k is actually in the weathliest 15% and should therefore pay more tax. If people choose to live in london and buy houses at £600k then that is their choice but they are still earning more than the rest of the country and should pay more tax IMHO"

Funny - I'd love to meet those people earning between £40-60K in London (or anywhere in the UK for that matter) buying £600K houses. Just out of curiosity, if all the people in London earning £40-60K (which really isn't a lot) moved out of London where would you have them go?

A suggestion from my DH - nationalise all the on-line bingo & gambling sites. All those people who fritter away their money and brain cells will then be performing a public service.