Lefties 9: This will succeed through its success

[taffetacat]

Is everyone on Twitter now?

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I'm still trying to understand the thing about enthymeme in internet discourse. Why is the internet a good place for enthymeme? How does personal equate to virtual? And most interestingly, is it in the combined discourse, rather than individual statements, that the enthymeme lies - i.e. is the 'accretion of veracity' in a multiduce of posts the location of the implicit conclusion?

For another thread, though, sorry.

"Enthymeme" is alarmingly addictive as a word, isn't it? I see it's potential as an infuriatingly withering put-down - made more irritating by its capacity to operate as a sort of verbal Masonic hand-shake owing to its origin in a less-frequented corner of the mn-universe. It has "clique-word" potential. And also immediately is one of those "how did I live without it words.

Well done, eleison.

Or perhaps the indea is that internet discourse is full of bottom-of-hierarchy types who don't know any better than to assert partial premises or think their point is made without formal appeal to a conclusion.

Eleison - I took enthymeme to point to those "commonly held truths" ("It is a fact universally acknowledged to be true that a single man in possession of a good fortune is in want of a wife", as a famous example), that people base arguments on. And they don't bother arguing the premiss, because they are so sure that everyone agrees.

Except they don't. they're usually quite questionable premisses.

Mn - and internet - is a place where many people come together. As such, it has the potential for lots of people to concur on these "commonly-held beliefs", to reinforce them, even to generate new ones.

But, it also has the potential, because so many people gather together, brought together by an interest that isn't the object under discussion, for others to interject, and puncture the implied unanimity of the "commonly held belief".

i think ... .

Onebat and Eleison -- off to the wankers thread with you. I'm holding the pair of you responsible if this thread veers off-course!

Sozza.

All fascinating stuff, and I love the appeal to enthymeme to start to unpack that fantastic P&P statement. But I'm afraid I've been horribly hijacky so will back off now.

Back to politics. The Labour Leadership Venn Diagram

Only kidding, Eleison (and Onebat) - I thought it was a great addition - not a hi-jack (just imo). It's a great word, too.

@ Venn diagram.

Just one more apologetic remark. Animula, it is interesting that you see enythmeme as a negative, though. My first thought of it (when I discovered it just now) was as a positive, socratic thing - leaving readers/hearers to work to a conclusion themselves. The P&P statement is enthymimetic not only in the sense that you mention, but also in the further sense that, by laying the commonly held belief out so explicitly and without comment, it allows readers to draw their own conclusion about the absurdity od a belief that they had (some of them) formerly held implicitly.

Hadn't thought about that at all, Eleison. Good point. And it does seem to fit, neatly, with irony, too, for some reason.

"The poor, to be worthy objects of state support, must live lives of straitening and squalor, with as little joy as possible, that evoke our compassion."

And back to politics. My bf reckons that in this visual age, the Left should choose someone who looks good versus DC. , a visual representation of difference. ie Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper. Not a Milliband - they're too similar.

(That has an enthymeme hidden in it somewhere, re. visual culture, I suspect.)

You're wanking on the wrong thread ...

Remarking place, although I have now caught up with links/blogs etc (great stuff OBM)

Dd on sofa with temperature, feet resting on Campbell and Benn who arrived cosily together in a jiffy bag this morning.

afternoon all.

Hello everybody - still following thread, just not having much to say at the moment. Will have a gander at your blog later onebat when the kids are in bed.

Loving the enthymeme tangent .

Evening all, have been off working and having arguments about public sector pensions.

A bit [inadequate emoticon] about the wordy discussions on the thread, I see I will have to start keeping my dictionary by the laptop to keep up with you lot.

Loved your blog OBM - will never look at the Millibands without thinking about Niles and Frasier.

Heard a bit of Ed Balls being interviewed on R4 this evening, he was a bit, erm, hesitant at first but soon warmed up and I have to say I warmed to him a bit (although not a fan of the big scary eyed look). He is going to have to practice being asked awkward questions though, took him ages to come up with something to "What have you and Gordon Brown disagreed about in the last 3 years" After a lot of prompting he eventually came up with decision not to call a GE in 2007 and the scrapping of the 10p tax band.

Proles - I have also been toying with the idea of joining the greens. Am coming from the disaffected lefty LD angle though.

Hello you lovely lot. I haven't been on MN for about a week - have come back to see that near enough all the political threads have disappeared from active convos!

Have just skimmed through the thread - it makes me firmly believe that I am the stupid leftie on the thread!

Actually managed to get round to joining the Labour party today.

I am still not convinced re Ed Balls at all. Wish Yvette was still in the ring.

Loving the venn diagram.

Have had a response from my local Lib Dem MP after I asked for my vote back. Have posted it "Here"

Pretty standard response I'm afraid.

Diane Abbot running in Labour leadership contest too. Wowzer!

I am glad that there is a woman running I suppose, just not sure she is leader material.