Whisper. What about repealing the Hunting Ban?

[whatwasthatagain]

This has been on my mind since the election, so thought I would post, get flamed, and then name change . If the Conservatives had received a majority in the election, I understood they would repeal the hunting ban, or at least have a free vote. Now that they have teamed up with the Lib Dems, is there any chance? I know it is not the most important thing on anyone's agenda, but it is quite an important subject for a large part of the Conservative heartlands. Any takers? Off to put DD to bed. Back later.

Are you talking about repealing the law in England? It was outlawed in Scotland in 2002.

The economy was doing well when they banned fox hunting, it was 2004, no?

Complimentary-I would (hesitantly and reluctantly) agree with you if earths were not blocked an terriers not sent in.It is not "weeding out the weakest"-it is a so called sport. This is what I have a problem with.
Sport,by definition,is a copmpetition of equal capabilities"....nuff said......

It was - house prices still going up - all safe and sound.

complimentary, I think you confused yourself there. You brought up that some people eat meat and yet still object to hunting.

I am simply saying that I am not objecting to hunting on the grounds that the cute little animals get killed. It would be silly of me to see it that way since I eat meat which requires animals to be killed.

I do think that people killing animals for enjoyment is sick however.

Now which part of that are you having a problem with?

I had heard ten times more too, raven, but couldn't remember where.

People argue 'we need to control the fox population'...but don't really discuss why.

I guess that kind of irritates me because it's making a scientific argument without any backup or followthrough.

Is anyone monitoring said population? What's the ideal level?
Since the greatest pressure on fox numbers seems to be from roadkill, surely you'd need to massively increase the hunting kill rate to really make a difference? And how do you know when they're in danger of going extinct?
Does it matter if they go extinct?

Anyway, I certainly don't think it's worth wasting parliamentary time over.

i hope the do not repeal the ban.

why should fox hunting be seen as ok when badger baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting and hare coursing are all seen to be cruel?

the long and short of it is that hunting in this way is cruel. pitting one animal against another for sport is wrong. pitting many animals against one is cruel. if they repeal one they should repeal all and i hope in a civilised society that people realise what that would mean.

i support the ban. a change of pm wont change my mind.

I said baying, not braying. And they are huge fuck off horses.

My sister hunts. Her horses are massive great hunters. Don't tell me that they're not. A 16 hand horse is a big old bugger. No one hunts on Shetland ponies.

How is that fair? Or equivalent to wolves? Honestly, the arguments you make in its favour are all tenuous beyond belief.

fox hunting has nothing to do with fox populations.

and anyway the current law does not stop fox hunting.

nor should it. fox hunting is no more cruel- considerably less cruel actually- than intensive pig or chicken farming.

i imagine most people who live outside of the cities would rather have what feels to them like the county's more or less solitary policeman/woman try to stop their house being burgled than waste time to stop a fox getting killed.

That's a non-argument, Strangelybrown.

I'd also rather be hit with a rolled up newspaper than a wet kipper, but that doesn't mean I like rolled up newspapers.

Anyway, when was the last time a police officer tried to prevent a burglary? Do you live in Camberwick Green by any chance?

The current law doesn't stop foxhunting - true, & something which deserves wider publicity, given that the majority of the public does cheerfully assume that this abhorrent practice has been stopped.

However, it's still important that it is now seen as a shady & illegal cruel practice, rather than a rather jolly Christmas card scene.

I agree totally with LadyBiscuit. The whole idea of this as 'sport' is just ridiculous and I would suggest that MOST people think so - many of them very silently.

I was brought up around a hunt and I held my tongue in the face of the vociferous hunt supporters because they were just so 'gung ho' that to question them or disagree just wasn't worth it.

I guess they just don't know how many people hate the whole idea of the hunt PARTICULARLY in country areas - where do you think the saboteurs came from?

Sorry - I really feel like I'm being rude telling the truth about this.

I'd be perfectly happy if cruel farming practices were outlawed, too...

"when was the last time a police officer tried to prevent a burglary?"

I've always thought that arresting burglars was a way of preventing burglary.

I have nothing against kippers or newspapers, but i do think that legislating to stop one practice deemed cruel while allowing others which are equally cruel makes an ass of the law...its not a place the law should go, and frankly the motivation of many 'anti-hunting' people has very little to do with vulpine welfare

Now that's a common misconception - that anti-hunting types are concerned with rescuing lots of Fantastic Mr Foxes, whilst caring not one jot about Bootiful Turkey Twizzlers.

They are two separate issues.

Intensive pig or chicken farming involves cruelty as a by-product of producing as much pork or chicken as efficiently as possible.

I'm very much against it. But I have family connections involved in battery farming, & well, no-one does it for fun.

Hunting involves chasing something smaller than you until you catch it & tear it to bits. For fun.

Although it is refreshing to have a pro-hunting type concede that it has 'nothing to do with fox populations'.

Of course it doesn't - pity so many of the apologists still solemnly come out with blibble about 'culling' & 'managing'.

It's morally on a par with putting a kitten in a washing machine. Which would also be no more cruel than standard intensive farming practices.

I think that's why people baulk at discussing this so much. Because those of us who oppose hunting are actually morally criticizing the hunters. I have always found it difficult to say what I thought in open camera. I think I'm only saying it now because I can be anonymous.

It makes you feel nasty to say that someone is somehow morally 'bad'.

Apologies LadyBiscuit, I will put that mis-read down to the Pinot I've consumed. Granted hounds bay. And I know this wasn't the point you were making so am not having a go at you here, but I do think that hunting gets confused with class snobbery unnecessarily, when actually the difference is more of a town/country one.

(But I have seen people hunting on Shetland ponies! In real life, and in Thelwell cartoons... )

I do agree Raven, there is just no need for it in any practical sense.

so no one makes their living from bloodsports? its all just posh fun, right?

and there are no environmental benefits from bloodsports either i suppose?

I live amongst this. Its got nothing to do with class AT ALL. Anyone who knows a little about real hunts knows that.

The hounds are an issue - thats all really.

Sorry.

The fox population doesn't need controlling, it's self-regulating. And how is it not a class thing when it's the preserve of the monied or well-connected?

The difference is not a town/country thing and the idea that everyone in the country supports hunting is not true. Only those involved in the "sport" support it. The rest of us aren't keen on a bunch of arrogant fuckers charging around the countryside as if they own every part of it. Not to mention stray huntsmen/women clattering around the village with scant regard for anyone/anything because they've lost the rest of the hunt (fuckwits).

Geronitus - depends on the hunt. It is not the preserve of the monied and well connected. Those elements are part of it but not exclusively. Just like football isn't the preserve of a bunch of yobs from the Isle of Dogs. I know hunting is less accessible - not televised except on the news and not available in city centres. But not always posh kids.

I live in a rural area which isn't a hunting one - lots of shooting about which most people are either not interested or very enthusiastic - but not hunting with hounds. Support is mixed but then no-one round here made their living from it. But the lives of a handful of vermin (still the legal category for a fox) were deemed more important than the lives of, say, Iraquis.

I hope he does fulfil his promise to put it to a free vote in the commons. However given his new allegiance to the libs I can't see it happening anytime soon. Hunting will just carry on as before - within the law.

Why do "we" need to "control" foxes? What a load of bollocks.