A sixth of Scots voted for the Tories

[abr1de]

Apparently Around one-sixth of Scottish voters support the Conservatives, but are rewarded not with 10 seats but with one

Sorry, I don't mean to offend. But then I never heard a Scottish person say that when they were glorying in their appalling bigotry. I was brought up to disdain bigots of all kinds and really I find it completely beastly that it's supposed to be just some comedy quirk the Scots have. Ugh. Can't imagine saying I'd support any side so long as it wasn't African/Muslim/American/whatever. It's quite intolerable.

They fought so hard and they do love their country, so the North Sea notwithstanding it's fine by me if we go separate ways.

but of course the English a politeness personified towards the Scots

If you are going to generalise at least make the effort to do it indiscriminatly.

I don't hear English people talking about how awful Scottish people are. Do you? What have you heard English people say? Do you think there is a generalised bigotry against Scottish people by English people? I don't. I've never heard it: only this dislike of the way Scottish people are bigotted against English people. In my experience English people don't spend that much time thinking or talking about it. I would hope you don't deny it exists among Scottish people?

As to generalising, obviously I know not every single Scottish person is like this : as you might divine, it's the appalling generalisations made by Scottish people that abrade.

'I don't hear English people talking about how awful Scottish people are. Do you?'

Yes i do. How about the Scottish should stop scrounging our money. Or the how all Scots are tight jokes.
You've never seen or heard someone English giving a Scot a hard time? I don't believe you.

I've never denied anything however you deny it exists among the English. ROFL @ the irony.

'Gosh I'd love the Scots to get independence. Frightfully prejudiced against England and the English.' is generalising, however you want to dress it up it's not hard to use the word some

I do deny it, but then that's my experience. I have never heard it from English people -- even when with (educated and well brought up) Scottish people who are expressing their own prejudice very robustly. It's not mutual, unless it's just because I've chosen not to hang around with bigotted English people. Perhaps you should try it.

There is a convention that the Scottish MPs don't vote on English matters. However, I am not sure, if Labout had succeeded in entering into an "alliance of the losers" that it would have had the luxury of maitaining that convention - so could have put its own nail in the Union.

Interestingly, in the case of the tuition fees, which Labour only won by 5 votes, 5 of the Scottish MPs voted against and 3 abstained - and 8 of the Welsh MPs voted against.

The word deluded springs to mind...

It is very much mutual, unless of course you are calling me a liar, i'd say it's more likely you choose not to see it tbh.

As for me trying it you don't have to worry i don't hang around with biggoted english people either.

you just can't imagine that English people might be less prejudiced than another group

it's inconceivable for you

I don't think you're alone, tbh -- and I'll raise you deluded to wilfully so in your case

I never said they were more or less prejudiced than any other group it isn't a competition.

I'm so glad you pressume to know what i'm thinking though. again.

yes you have, of course you have, how strange you are

you deny that Scottish prejudice against the English is greater than English prejudice against the Scottish

there is a vast Highland sized chip on the collective Scottish shoulder about England and the English, and there is in my experience neither shame nor embarrassment in voicing it

how can you say you don't hang around with bigotted people if they talk about how tight Scottish people are and how they scrounge "our" money

In your own words you said i ' deny that Scottish prejudice against the English is greater than English prejudice against the Scottish' How is that saying that i think the English can't be less prejudiced than any other group.

Do you have to hang about with people to hear what they are saying? Is reading it on a website hanging round with people, are we 10 again?

I said it was mutual, and IME it is, stop putting words in my mouth, it's not big and it's not clever, now i'm done feeding the troll, have a

"I never said they were more or less prejudiced than any other group it isn't a competition".

"I said it was mutual, and IME it is"

make your mind up flower

am not a troll (it's really is unimaginable for you that English people might be less prejudiced than anyone else ever) nor am I ten, I just don't live in denial

are you simply talking about this website and this thread, and, in fact, me? what website are you talking about if not? why don't you show this thread to any Scottish people you know and ask them what they think?

just bizarre

you don't hear people saying it but you read it on websites?

completely weird

you hear Scottish people happily voicing it btw

Bless i can't help you if you don't know what mutual means.

You can hear what people say without hanging round with them.

LOL @ you telling me what i think.

prettybird - I have learned about the convention of abstaining in relation to SMP MPs, but are you sure it applied to Scottish labour party MPs (pretty sure Gordon Brown never abstained in that way, just as a flippant example).

Ok, I'll grant you that tuition fees was not the best example in the world (bit lazy of me really). So many MPs abstained or rebelled on that 2006 (?) vote that it isn't a good example. But to continue for it with a moment, aren't there abut 60 Scottish constitencies, and weren't about 40 of those Labour last election? You mentioned that 8 Scottish MPs either abstained or voted against. Not sure if that was Labour, or included the SMP, but even assuming it was Labour, doesn't that leave more than 30 labour MPs who voted for English top up fees?

This isn't designed to be a fight. I am genuinely interested in this point and I haven't been able to track down any full voting figures (it's all so confused by people with people who simply are not present for the vote, etc. Although I would assume there was a three line whip for the tuition fees one). If there is a genuine record of abstaining on these votes then I am interested to learn about it.

oh my gosh -- do tell me what you think it means

perhaps I've made a mistake and you do think the Scots are more resentful and prejudiced than the English

you are contradicting yourself all over the place, it's actually quite hard to know what you think as you're not that sure yourself

Actually I agree with you Ripenaberry - whether or not there was a convention of abstaining (or not bothering attending ), it is wrong that the (over represented) Scottish MPs can, if they choose, have such a disproportionate influence.

And while Scottish Labour MPs may not have chosen to go along while Labour had a large majority, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would have voted on any and everything if there was a narrow majoirty - as they did during the vote on tuition fees when there was a risk of the legislation failing.

It is interesting that David Cameron is setting up a commission to look at the "West Lothian" question.

I do agree with you btw prettybird. Perhaps not an endorsement you want but I do anyway.

Prettybird- I agree, against the backdrop of the wider electoral reform, it would seem a good time to take up this issue.

It is a cause of a lot of resentment in England where (fairly or unfairly, as I do understand the arguments about equality of access in a remote population), it is often felt that Scotland gets an unfair proportion of the money. I think that would become less pressing if people did not feel that Scottish MPs had a say in how English money was spent - to continue with my lazy top up fees example, if my maths is right, Labour would have lost the vote if all the Scottish MPs had abstained. Yet they all knew that they wouldn't have to answer to any angry constituents!

The size of consitituencies in terms of population is a big issue too. Aren't some of the Scottish ones the ones with the lowest populations (and therefore highest 'vote' value). Or have I got that totally wrong and it's urban areas that applies to . Either way, it's wrong that the size varies so widely and that needs changing.

I think Cameron is in a difficult position though. If Scottish MPs are excluded, he will be accussed of trying to 'fix' the situation to keep himself in power (regardless of the obvious fairness) and there is always the worry that that type of reform would increase support for a referendum on full indpependence by allowing the countries to grow apart more. The Tories are opposed to that, aren't they?

Mind you, as I've said, I think a referendum is not a bad idea. If a majority of those living in Scotland (careful language there!) want independence, they should be given a say. Mind you, I think that the appetite might be lower than anticipated and I think Alex Salmond would become a lot less popular once he had to raise the funds as well as spending it - personally I would at least be in favour of the assembly having the power to raise taxation revenue, as I think it leads to a lack of accountability when all you are saying is 'oooh, I'll fight for more in our budget'.

I was born,brought up, educsated and worked in Scotland. Came South 15 years ago.

In Scotland it's de rigour to slag off anything remotely English. Thus slagging off the Tories. It's the mothership of bigotry. I often think of Scots politicians as little brats, 'It's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!'.

I moved to Newcastle, which is where the TV cameras always used to land when they wanted to talk about poverty in the UK. Yet the people here, (depsite the local hardships) are the most friendly, aspirational folk you could ever meet. I've never had my Scottish accent slagged off, never had anyone complaining about nicking Geordie jobs.

The Scots are totally reliant on funding from the UK governement and the EU to prop them up. The defensive, aggressive stance they take with the UK govt disguises the fact that they are unable to forget ancient history, and move FWD to become a modern, inclusive society. How many Scots are able to comprehend the second verse of their national anthem?

BTW, Glencoe, Culloden - ancient history. it's no excuse for bigotry when you hear an English accent.

(I'm a leftie, not a Tory)

Well said, Highlander.

backtotalkaboutthis - you sound pretty bigotted towards the scots tbh. Which doesn't back up your argument too well

I'm not bigotted against the Scots and I don't sound it either. I don't like the bigotry of the Scots against the English -- I recognise it, disdain it, and don't think it makes me a bigot to do so.

Just give me evidence that I am bigotted against Scottish people. One thing I've said. The only stereotype I've ever heard, and this is in jokes from thirty years ago by people like Jim Davison, is that they are Scrooge-like, but I've never found that and it's not my experience at all. This dislike of the English is the only thing that I would say is more or less received wisdom north of the border. If you deny it exists, fair enough, but you'd be wrong. If you don't deny it, then I fail to see how it's bigotted to express my dislike of a profound prejudice.

Frightfully prejudiced, resentful, ghastly, huge chip on their shoulder. For one, you are wrong. But you are are also massively generalising. you are stating it as fact that scots hate english more than english hate scots - you don't know that.