An agreement has been reached according to sky news.

[JustBlameSue]

Between Tories and Lib Dems. No real details as yet.

AV is Alternative Vote. It's a supposedly proportional system but often ends up distorting the result more than FPTP. There's also AV+ (which no one else has).

I don't know, AV just doesn't have the advantages of multi-member STV. One of the good things about STV is that you can choose between a party's candidates in your area, so it's like being able to take part in selections. You can give preference to women candidates over male ones from the same party, if you want. And you can split your ticket between parties.

At present, labour can convert a % share into more seats than the tories can because seats have different numbers of people in them. The tories want to address some of the pro-labour bias that results from the way boundaries are set. It comes down, as I understand it, to when they're set rather more than anything else.

Not a problem.

I think that one problem with all of this - especially electoral reform - is that you've got to be pretty sad to get into the details of it.

The arguments that the lib dems will use in favour of reform are things like this election where the share of the vote went up but the number of seats went down. This can also happen under some of the alternative systems but would appear to be less likely.

I think there's no prospect of a true PR system in the UK. The electorate understands constituencies and both alternative vote and single transferrable vote are close enough to be reasonably familiar. whilst die-hard PR advocates aren't happy with Alternative Vote, it's an improvement on what we've got at present and doesn't move us too far from where we are.

MintHumbug, you can walk into the polling station and just put a 1 against your favourite candidate's name if you want, and leave. Each party puts up several candidates, and you just rank as many as you want, just from that party or from others too.

(talking about STV here).

It depends on the variant of the system vesela - some require that all candidates are ranked, others let you rank only a number (I think this is how the London mayoral elections do it), and still others let you do as many or few as you choose.

At this level, though, I don't think it makes much difference!

I know, given the choice, I'd rank 15 if the BNP was choice 16!

(This is probably irrational though - if your first choice is tory/labour/lib dem it doesn't matter too much if one your second choice is an unpopular candidate since the chances are that this candidate would be eliminated before your first choice. For this reason, bleating from Tories that they'd vote BNP second in protest are only effective if they truly believe the BNP is more popular than the Tories!)

Where I lived we'd vote UKIP second in protest.

I am hopping mad at all of them.

Labour can't just offer AV now it suits them. If they offer AV+ it's even worse because it's totally untested! I wouldn't say I'm a diehard PR advocate, but I am a PR geek.

We will never get full PR but I don't want the LDs selling out the next best solution for one which is majoritarian, which straight AV is.

I respect Camerons wish to campaign against in a referendum but IMO if it's passed through parliament then they as members of parliament can't run the 'no' campaign. They can't use their status at least. I know it's student politics but when we had a big referendum the SU and everyone in it had to be on board. If you wanted to go with the no campaign you couldn't use your SU office or connections in any way because the council had decided the official position. This should be the same.

They're all worms.

The thing that annoys me more than anythng about this is that Labour is now offering to impose a new voting system on the electorate in order to cling on to power. This was not discussed at all during the run up to the election yet we will not be given a chance to vote on it.

That is just wrong for democracy. Indeed I think there is chance the population might revolt and even under an AV system vote out Lib-Lab en masse.

A plague on all their houses. I think what is happening is the most disgraceful display of undemocratic scheming I've had the misfortune to witness. Cons won the most seats, so they should be allowed to form a minority Government and fight it out in the House.

Lib/Lab alliance - how can a Government made up from the two losers in the election, lashed together with (they hope) support from the national parties, hope to form a stable government? They will reel from crisis to crisis, horsetrading over every tough measure that needs to be introduced to prop up the economy. If it happens, I'd give a Lib/Dem coalition 6 months and then the wheels would fall off.

"deals after an election that bear no relation to what any of us actually voted for"

you see, this is a very FPTP mentality.

Do you remember the poll a few weeks ago, 'which of these governments would you be dismayed by'; 45% of the population are dismayed by a Tory government, 51% by a Labour government.

Now I know what makes me dismayed by the thought of a Conservative government (tax cuts for the rich, picking on single parents etc), and I'm sure you know what Labour policies are unacceptable to you.

So why not have a 'modified' party in charge, shorn of its more objectionable policies, so that people can actually have a government that they vaguely agree with?

the heathen I'm hoping the "modified party" is a lib/con coalition.

Hide the right wing tories (they can defect to UKIP) give the cabinet jobs to Gove (nice man), Hague (a bit right wing but at least he is clever), David Davis if they have to appease the right, and some of the more able lib dems like sarah teather, chris huhne.

If you had lib/lab coalition there would be less debate so really it would end up blairite which I would consider tory but with less competetent people on the labour side and the distraction of the SNP, Irish, welsh demands.

Whatever one says about tory policy they have more able MPs than the labour party. Even people like david davis on the right wing of the tories are stronger on civil liberties than the labour party.

If we don't boot new labour out we will still have id cards, will we end up with other policies they mooted like a death tax and reassessing council tax bands..they have been snooping on property sizes/gardens for some time so I reckon they will find a way to tax people more for living in anything bigger than a one bed flat. If labour try and cut public sector spending by as much as 1p there will be strikes..

I'm feeling a bit irritated that Nick Clegg, who I generally respect, is faffing around! Is this an idication of the way the Lib Dems would make every political decision? I do hope not!

Oh no Snowlady - I disagree. I can't abide Michael Gove. What an odious man he is Proper tory toff.

I agree with whoever said NC can't win right now (as far as public opinion goes). I'm glad GB has resigned. Naturally this was always going to give Labour a better bargaining position with LD.

I think the Clegg is 'dishonourable' line is a bit silly tbh - this is how negotiating works isn't it?

Who knows what the Tory negotiating team are offering up or compromising on in their 'desperate' bid or 'scrabble' to command a majority government? Quite a lot by all accounts, and not just AV

We don't know anything. Clegg quite right to talk to both parties.

I don't see any easy outcomes for anyone right now though

Had LD made a quicker decision, Tories would not have offered a referendum on AV. They are right to hold out imho.

Completely agree ahundredtimes

Yes, and also it should take a few days or weeks, to reach a proper decision

We're just not used to it, that's all

And media want more story - they're creating a kind of false pressure aren't they?

Oh yes, good point Ladylush!

The delay making a decision is making everyone feel very unsettled - understandably. Makes for great tv though

if they don't sort this out quick, the markets are going to punish the UK (the value of your pension will fall, sterling will fall out of bed,interest rates will likely have to rise quickly to prop up the pound). Just make a decision, people, and start governing.

"deals after an election that bear no relation to what any of us actually voted for"

I'd go for straight PR in order to avoid this happening again. The outgoing PM wouldn't have to resign, at least. Most of the talks would have happened already and they'd only have to spend the w/e twitching a few bits and pieces.