An agreement has been reached according to sky news.

[JustBlameSue]

Between Tories and Lib Dems. No real details as yet.

(BeenBeta, Labour are apparently now offering AV without a referendum).

I don't think that all the casual racism against the Australians helps anything
I have some sympathy with vesela and snowlady, but the reality seems to be that most LibDems are more comfortable with Labour and opposed to a deal with the Tories (unless PR is part of it) than you are.

MrJustAbout, don't the Australians require you to carry on ranking candidates until the bitter end?! It seems a particularly nonsensical variation!

jenny60 - when I said the Australians had it, all I meant was that they had it and still had a two-party system (in the lower house)

I have been uttlerly dismayed today. This everyone is what a hung parliament looks like Mr Nick "I'm not like the other two" Clegg (Nick you are far far worse) prostituting for his parties interests rather than the countries. I'm a Tory supporter and right now I would prefer opposition to this tawdry display. Nick can join a coalition of the losers and just hang. There's nothing democratic about what we are seeing on our screens at the moment. Its just nauseating

jenny - it's not racist so much as nationalist, as I'm a kiwi and we do bicker. I do wish NZ had their voting system though.

vesela - you have a choice of how to vote: either one tick and follow what a party says your order should be, or give a full ranking yourself. The two options appear in different places on the ballot papers and I understand that most people choose the one tick ("above the line") option.

vesela, having just read the Observer from yesterday (I've been busy, OK?!); it said Tories would not concede on going into the Euro (well, duh) or on any concession wrt STV. Not entirely sure why STV particularly, it's not like it's full PR....hmmm...
I guess just over half the country would put Labour first, Lib Dem second or vice versa, and the Tories would be screwed forever more.

(just been reading the wikipedia entry on stv; interesting, but made my head hurt)

At least Nick clegg must have persuaded Gordon Brown to stand aside something the labour party never managed to achieve.

I hope something is sorted out between the lib dems and tories tomorrow. I think it is not clegg himself that is causing the problems it is probably the left wing of the lib dems and labour tactical voters and possibly the right wing of the tories.

Tashtodd, the FPTP system usually allows a party with a minority of the country's votes to claim a landslide and start enacting policies opposed by the majority of voters.

Is that what you mean by 'democratic'?

veseal - thanks. I missed that detail.

I think GB started off by offering a referendum but yes I now see that has been hardened to it being now being offered without asking the electorate. In effect, imposed on the electorate.

There is still one twist though. The Bill bringing it in would still have to go through Parliament. It is thought that 50% of Labour MPs would vote against. Hence it would fail on a free vote.

The LibDems are not really any further forward with tonights offer from GB.

vesela

MJB - so that's what "above the line" means! Thank you. I knew they gave out those "how to vote" cards, but I thought you had to do the hard graft yourself!

Heathen - so it sounds as if the Tories would probably be heavily whipped or something against STV no matter how a bill got in.

Tashtodd, I don't know what's tawdry about elected representatives all talking to each other. Apparently they're having quite a good time.

Snowlady - I agree absolutely. GB couldn't have timed his "resignation" any better. Despicable man.

I'm also increasingly disappointed in NC and the Lib Dems. Is 3 days of mature politics as much as we can expect in this country.

Conversely, go John Reid, David Blunkett and any other Labour politician who is courageous and straightforward enough to tell it like it is. I don't think JR is in Parliament any more, but if he was - John Reid for Labour leader!

To all the Lib Dem supporters who are supporting the idea of propping up a failed Government that's been voted out of power - I would like to know what they think is fair and democratic about that. If you are a true Lib Dem you can only support the Tory/Lib Dem option.

I guess just over half the country would put Labour first, Lib Dem second or vice versa, and the Tories would be screwed forever more

but they wouldn't - if they'd put labour first, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

many would have put liberal second on both sides though...

this is another presumption that liberal sentiment = labour sentiment. not so. the two paries have differnt support bases and in some areas drastically different policies.

I'm also loving the irony of an unelected Labour government proposing to impose a new voting system on the electorate without so much as a referendum.

The tories are only offering a referendum on the least popular voting system, so we'll lose... particularly with all the Tory papers and Murdoch media dead set against it. That's crap.

surely a liberal party wouldn't want to force a new voting system on the country knowing it would be ejected in a referendum?

seems contrary to what liberalism is about.

I'm hoping that talks with Labour are just so that they can report back to memebers that they have looked at all the available options.

It seems like Labour are willing to promise things they can't deliver - but this does not suprise me at all.

"so it sounds as if the Tories would probably be heavily whipped or something against STV no matter how a bill got in."

Vesela - no, apparently the Conservatives would support a bill in Parliament and use the whip to get it through but would want to be free to canvas against it in a referendum. So a bit luke-warm support, I suppose but then it really hasn't been their policy before so can't blame them for putting up a bit of a fight.

gaelicsheep - when you put it like that it is really scary.

FreeButtonBee - on STV too, you mean? or just AV?

I'm seeing some interesting words on this thread to describe NC and the LibDems:
"honest...decent...honourable..." I think it's fascinating that people view a political party - any political party in this way. Isn't it just because until now they got so little media attention that we simply haven't had the opportunity to see them as politicians in the same mould as the Tories/ Labour?

snowlady - you are so right about NC persuading Gordy to go. I am still convinced that had he left long before the election, the Labour party would have won outright. Perhaps by the scraping of a rat's hair, but they still would have won.

I think NC and his team must be amazingly good negotiators - I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the rooms where they're striking deals with both parties. And then I would dip my fly legs in a steaming turd and hop a merry dance over all their biscuits .

This afternoon I heard on the radio that Nick Clegg helped negotiate for the EU with China ... and China's not known to be a pushover.

When I told JustAbout she said that it was probably the first time she's ever felt sorry for David Cameron.

I picked today's events on Friday, although I thought Brown was gone yesterday rather than today. Clegg's speech on Friday was masterful, and really suggested that he had a plan.

The questions is now whether he wants to support the tories with a better deal (I think they still thought they had the whip hand) or go for PM in coalition. (If he's the PM after Brown's departure, he's not an unelected PM - he's the leader of one of the parties in coalition, which won nearly a quarter of the vote.) I'm kind of torn as to which he should go for ... for the sake of national interest it may still be the tories.

Although if it is tory, expect that they'll accept a referendum on AV and require campaign finance along with the tory desire for revising electoral boundaries.

When the lib dems started talking about political reform, I think this was partly acknowledging tory concerns and partly expanding their demands. I'm not sure if that shoe's fallen yet though!

Rofl at JustAbout's sorrow for DC! This is what I mean - he looks like a kitten, but I reckon he's really a shark at the negotiating table.

What is AV? i.e. what does it stand for?

Can't recall who it was that said earlier that the male and female MPs were given different levels of respect by journos - whoever you are, you have eagle ears. And that is absolutely appalling that the women MPs are treated that way.