I don't want to vote Tory...come and explain to me why Labour's spending plans won't end in disater

[Litchick]

I'm a life long Labour supporter...but I'm really worried.

Let's put aside the Iraq war, ID cards, the disgraceful attempt to stop home education etc etc...

What's really worrying me is the economy. We owe so much. And yes I know some of it came from bailing out the banks which I think was the right thing to do ( if painful), but a lot of it is the refusal to curb spending when tax receipts are down.

I've been told by many an unreconstructed Keynesian that spending through the recession is the right way to go.

But......if we keep borrowing won't we eventually be unable to serice the debt? And what if our credit rating is down graded won't that exacerbate the situation?

Please tell me why, economically, it's the right course of action.

so, pardon me, but what exactly is new then?

If you're going to try in any way to spend your way out of recession, its critical to spend on the right things. Unfortunately Labour doesn't appear to see beyond spending on the State. We don't seem to have had the equivalent of the US 'stimulus' program - supporting SMEs and innovation. The company I work for is US-based, and has benefitted from that, its helping it carry on growing - REAL growth, creating real value not just shuffling money around.

Saw this, thought it might be useful:

Social Protection (£203bn) is by far the biggest area,
Second is Health (£110bn),
Third is Education (£82bn)
and Defence (£37bn) is lagging behind as the sixth biggest spending area

Debt interest is £31bn which = 5%

So longfingernails - we are not spending more on debt interest than on schools.

www.wheredoesmymoneygo.org/prototype/

ahundredtimes - Ireland doesn't have the highest unemployment rate in Europe. Spain, Lativa and Slovakia are well ahead.
epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&language=en&pcode=teilm020&tableSelection=1&plugin= 1

Got to love the facts

True. Thank you. Can I say one of the highest?

Now who's stalking who Cablepower?

Newyorkshire - what factual evidence do you have of this, that the minimum wage will go?

Ahundredtimes - I believe that there should be a safety net for those who need it; carers should be given a better deal and the elderly looked after, and those who are too ill too work. I don't however believe that people who earn £50k+ should be getting tax credits and I think that those who have a benefits entitlement culture (and I have taught some), the 'I'm not going to work because the state owes me a living' brigade, should be encouraged back into work of whatever sort, and be weaned off their benefits.

Cablepower - I live in Belgium at present, and buy Belgian produce as much as I can and Scottish and Welsh lamb when they have it here. When in the UK, I buy from the local butcher/fishmonger/greengrocer, and milk is the Robert Wiseman Cornish milk sold in the local Tesco and Waitrose. Eggs are from the egg farm up the road and all the ice cream I buy is locally produced. Cheese is from the fantastic local cheese shop who only supply UK cheeses. It is possible to buy British, you just have to look.

msVal

Don't patronise me.

Education spending isn't the same as schools spending.

In fact, what you list as "Education" is in fact "DCSF".

Scaryteacher - didn't know you were here!

I wish everyone did buy British (although in your case it would seem fair to buy Belgian). And it's great that you do. But lots of us can't afford to. That's the point.

Research the number of food shops that have closed in UK...I've put it on another thread but you'll have to find me!!

I think we have more in common than we first thought but my alliance to the Torys is over.

Voted this morning...walked past the closed shops. Got to think differently...

What time is a good time for wine in Belgium?

ahundredtimes - yes, i can accept that . Can you tell that i'm irish and so slightly defensive?!

long.etc - not being patronising, just adding in some facts. Often statements are put out there with no back up, so like to get the facts and figures in too. If you have some additional ones maybe it would help if you posted them too?

Here is one source for the debt interest versus schools

www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+camerons+conference+speech+2009/ 3377797

Note that in the "schools" budget all the LEA bureaucracy is included. The figure actually going to the schools is around 20% lower, if I remember correctly.

Cablepower - it's cheaper to buy meat in my part of the UK at the butcher than the supermarkets, though it's cheaper to buy food and clothes and shoes in the UK full stop, compared to the horrendous prices here, so don't hope for the Euro any time soon. I bought my ds (14) a pair of Caterpillar boots last summer. They are 170 euros here; £49 in the shop I went to in Devon. Big difference!

I don't want the EURO...but I want Tory Capitalism less. And I think we agree on Labour.

Did you look at Bhutan and The Gross Happiness Index?

I'm not Buddhist but I think Tory economics are missing the point...despite endeavours in the pursuit of wealth (across both governments) we are one unhappy nation. We could learn a lot from other models.

Why did Labour get in?

This link has already been posted on MN by StewieGriffinsMom.

I have voted Labour in this election anyway but if I was hesitating this article from the Times would very much sway me away from Cameron and towards Brown.

Funny but true.

Scaryteacher-what factual evidence do you have that the conservatives are ''new'' and changed?

Beachcomber -

What stops you voting Lib Dem?

Beachcomber - the article was written 18 mths ago. A lot has changed since then.

Vote in Labour strong hold, am Scottish, like old school politicians like GB. Want to show support for Labour. LibDems would never get in where I vote.

Sure things have changed but not the characters, abilities, values, moral convictions and ability of the men involved.

Sorry to be a bit short, am meant to be working!