This is why I'm scared of the Lib Dems..

[atlantis]

I know it's the DM, but all the other media are running this as well;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1271739/Election-2010-Clegg-attacks-security-chiefs-critic ise-Lib-Dem-policy.html

He wont take advice from 'Mr Clegg insisted: 'I am not going to take lectures from a bunch of retired establishment figures about the security of this country."

Only the one's who back him it seems.

"The three former security chiefs had said that they were 'concerned' that the Lib Dem manifesto makes no mention of Nato and calls for a more distant relationship with the U.S.

'An enhanced European defence and security posture, however welcome, cannot substitute for American power,' they warned."

"'We believe that they need to clarify their position as soon as possible. All political parties must send the right signals to friend and foe alike.'

"British troops in Afghanistan deserve a 'clearer lead' than was offered by Lib Dem frontbenchers, who have adopted different positions on whether and when the UK contingent should be withdrawn, the three said.

Ruling out military action against Iran was 'precipitate', while the Lib Dems make no mention of North Korea, the other state threatening to acquire nuclear weapons."

"Lib Dem policy on the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent was in 'potentially dangerous confusion', with several senior frontbenchers indicating they would like to take the 'colossal gamble' of scrapping it altogether, said the former security chiefs."

The man is as arrogant as he is stupid.

Scaryteacher,
"All of Denmark is shockingly expensive, and all that lovely social security etc has to be paid for from high taxes."

Absolutely - I agree totally - if we want a first world social security system, then we have to be prepared to pay first world taxes. Direct taxes are higher, and the tax system more progressive, compared to the UK in many (perhaps most) of the other 'old' European countries (don't know much about the new EU members).

"It ain't all it's cracked up to be. A friend left a very secure well paid job to move back to Denmark, and had to pay import tax on her car, and now her mat leave has finished, has had problems finding a job. Rent is very high there as well."
Import tax on the car - same for us taking a UK car to Spain. Problems finding a job - well, I know plenty of people having that difficulty in the UK right now. High rents - fair point, BUT tenants have massively more security in the UK (at least they always used to, haven't been in Denmark for a while).

So no, Denmark isn't perfect, clearly (otherwise I might try to emigrate despite the beer and midges), but I think they demonstrate that you can have a rather different type of economy that doesn't focus on low taxes and high defence spending without it being the end of the world.

Exactly Takver.

Britain could learn a lot from other countries and new thinking. I'm lucky that my family is high earning and we should be made to pay more in tax for redistribution of wealth. I don't believe in big bonuses either.

There is a point where capitalist incentive is lost...and it's surprisingly low. If I'm warm in the winter, have food to eat, clothes to wear and money enough to pay my bills, then I'm am happy. But I want that government to take my tax and redistribute wisely. That's not a labour or a conservative government frankly. I reckon Vince Cable would shake things up a bit.

So, the arguments for keeping an independent deterrent basically come down to 'the Americans have told us to' and 'we'll be called ''yellow'' if we don't'? That's not terribly convincing, is it?

Obama couldn't give two shits about Cameron, any more than he can give two shits about Brown. He is conclusively, absolutely uninterested in the UK. It's just not at all significant for him - doesn't matter who's in charge. And like I said, that probably goes for the next president too, whoever that will be.

What country is a good example for the UK to aspire to???

Holland, Germany, Finland?

cable - once again i agree with you - My DH and I whilst not rich have a comfortable lifestyle and pay our taxes at source, i would like these to be used to fund education and health over the military.

I also feel immigration has been wrongly blamed for all the countries ill's and problems.

Bhutan.

They have a Gross Happiness Index

We could learn a lot.

loving watching the discussion unfold, don't fear, be brave, let go of prejudices, promote dialogue, keep Tories out teach Labour a lesson [blardy war and awful denting of personal liberties]
and no we do not need a Trident, it will not keep us safe