This is why I'm scared of the Lib Dems..

[atlantis]

I know it's the DM, but all the other media are running this as well;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1271739/Election-2010-Clegg-attacks-security-chiefs-critic ise-Lib-Dem-policy.html

He wont take advice from 'Mr Clegg insisted: 'I am not going to take lectures from a bunch of retired establishment figures about the security of this country."

Only the one's who back him it seems.

"The three former security chiefs had said that they were 'concerned' that the Lib Dem manifesto makes no mention of Nato and calls for a more distant relationship with the U.S.

'An enhanced European defence and security posture, however welcome, cannot substitute for American power,' they warned."

"'We believe that they need to clarify their position as soon as possible. All political parties must send the right signals to friend and foe alike.'

"British troops in Afghanistan deserve a 'clearer lead' than was offered by Lib Dem frontbenchers, who have adopted different positions on whether and when the UK contingent should be withdrawn, the three said.

Ruling out military action against Iran was 'precipitate', while the Lib Dems make no mention of North Korea, the other state threatening to acquire nuclear weapons."

"Lib Dem policy on the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent was in 'potentially dangerous confusion', with several senior frontbenchers indicating they would like to take the 'colossal gamble' of scrapping it altogether, said the former security chiefs."

The man is as arrogant as he is stupid.

Snowlady - we would be worse off under Labour due to the NI hike (again), and the fiscal drag with the tax bands staying the same, and I think the personal allowances have stayed the same as well.

Don't get tax credits, so that's irrelevant to us.

Libdems, don't know financially, as they haven't said how that 10k tax free would work for higher rate tax payers. However, I don't want PR, don't like the EU, and I want to renew Trident and disagree with Clegg on defence, so won't be voting for them.

Tories, income about the same, depending on public sector pay freezes and pay cuts and HM Forces redundancies. Cameron has said he is more interested in NATO than the EU on defence, so that's a big tick in my book.

Scaryteacher

I thought the 10k tax threshold would apply to many higher rate tax payers..I think it does apply to up to 60k but am not sure beyond that.

This was my understanding after watching the BBC news the other day as they said those families earning up to 58k who lose their tax credits would gain more from the 10k threshold than they would lose in tax credits.

If you prefer the tory policies on PR, EU and trident etc fair enough. One of my main concerns is state education and I am worried by the tory education policies.

i think it's about time Britain started realising that it is not the super-power it once was and stopped fighting the world's battles.

Hear hear Katz

The 10,000 tax threshold applies to everybody. No one in any band would pay tax on the first 10k.

The idea is to make the tax burden better-distributed because lower earners currently pay disprortionally more in VAT as well.

Takver - I agree completely. We complain about pretty much everything in this country, and then when someone points out a fairly sensible way of bringing ourselves into line with other countries wo have a better way of life than us, that damned imperial streak comes out again, and everyone complains that we won't be ruling the world anymore.

atlantis - I'd rather be called 'yellow' or a coward than have the murder of innocents on my conscience. While the war in Afghanistan arguably has a sound moral purpose, the invasion of Iraq was imperialist in its basis, and had nothing do do with the veneer of 'we're freeding them of Saddam' which they layed over the top to cover up a blatant attempt at empire-building.

If more countries turned away from an inherantly hostile approach, the world wouldn't "need" these nuclear weapons in hte first place.

herbie - if we did what i suggest above then the need for air support for ground troops would be minimized because they wouldn't be there or would be in smaller numbers. We no longer have the power we once had nor the economy to support fighting the battles of the rest of the world.

totally agree with you Tottwriter

2018 is 8 years away - i personally hope that our troops would no longer be in Afghanistan then and would equally hope that we had not entered into yet another battle that we didn't need to be involved in putting our troops at risk.

I would rather see trident abandoned and the money ploughed into healthcare and education

According to This Is Money, Labours tax on jobs will cost schools, hospitals, police and other public services £690m a year.

How is this a step forward?

www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=502265&in_page_id=2

What Nick Clegg has failed to mention is what defense measure he would use in place of Trident. And what that plan would cost. So, he isn't going to have available all the savings from stopping trident because surely he is going to do something else in it's place.... or is he? Is he really stupid enough to just cripple the military without regard for the consequeces. I fear the he might actually be.

I bet he hasn't looked at the payouts he'd have to make to get out of phase 3 of the Eurofighter.

I cannot understand why families earning up to £58k gets tax credits anyway. As I said, for us they're irrelevant anyway.

As for education - teaching under Labour was a PITA. New initiatives every time you turned round; red tape; inadequate and unfair funding; politicisation of the curriculum and the exam syllabus - yeuch.

I am so convinced that people will back off at the last minute from voting in droves for the Lib Dibs ... it's a bit like walking off the plank with them. Not sure why so many people have fallen for them/him?!?!? They haven't actually said ANYTHING.

?The Liberal Democrats are on a slow puncture and the air is coming out of the tyre. Whether enough of it will come out by Thursday, I don?t know,? Mr [Alan] Johnson told BBC Radio 4?s Today programme.

?People liked what they saw with Nick Clegg three weeks ago, and ever since then he has been a bit grating, he?s been trying the same tricks in every television debate and it gets a bit wearing.?

For the Tories, it was Michael Gove, the Shadow Schools Secretary, making the case against a hung Parliament.

?If people vote for the third party, for Nick Clegg, in this election, what they are doing is succumbing to a sort of blind date politics,? he said.

?The voice is seductive, but when the curtain slips back, after having voted for Nick Clegg, you don?t know who you are going to end up in bed with. You could have Ed Balls, Harriet Harman, or David Miliband as your prime minister. If that?s democracy, I?m a banana.?

We'll be in Afghanistan for another 15 years I think. Incidentally, we are there as part of a NATO led coalition, so we would have to think very carefully about withdrawing them and the effect it would have on our NATO partners.

Tottwriter - If more countries turned away from an inherantly hostile approach, the world wouldn't "need" these nuclear weapons in hte first place.

Tell it to Iran and N Korea then.

I prefer that the UK is able to defend itself ta.

Katz - totally agree. We are so economically weak that we need to focus on getting our own country in order.

We produce so little and import so much that we are unable economically to provide for ourselves. Try buying British? If other countries stopped trading with us tomorrow we'd see oour country collapse in a way that would make our banking crisis look like a small blip. Who needs Trident...our best defence is strengthening our economy.

Time for a new look at the economy linked with the environment. A thriving renewable sector might make us more self sufficient. Environment has been in the lib dem
manifesto long before Stern Reports.

But it's not attractive to big business under Labour or Conservatives because it will cost in the short for gains in the long. Big businesses control the government. And DC listens to them. NC may be wet behind the ears but he has an opportunity to start again. Labour was voted in because people were fed up with the Torys.

New vision, new values required not capitalist bankers driving the government.

Can't vote labour because of IRAQ / Banking fiasco / expenses debarcle / ...enough.

Open to more convincing arguments from conservatives. And likewise have no faith in Osbourne.

Not sure about Clegg but Vince Cable is solid. I love the idea of proportional representation. Like all but EURO stance of lib dems. They've got my vote.

How many people will actually vote tomorrow I wonder?

cable - i agree with you too - you've put it all so much better than i did. We need to put the Great back in Great Britain but thats through growing our own economy and wealth not through a military power struggle with other countries.

I think the Lib Dem's can't do an worse than as the other 2 parties and why not let them have a chance, you never know they may rise to the challenge and provide the UK with a real future.

Scaryteacher - you have missed vesalas point. You are not affected by tax credits but you might gain from the liberal democrat tax threshold rise.

Do you teach in the state or private sector. If you teach in the state sector do you really think the tory education policy is the best?

Re: defence it isn't just about our military capability. The tories sold off our public utilities so now we have the french running our electricity supply. The labour party were threatening to sell the port of Dover. Why doesn't the government take control of strategic areas within our own country first before spending millions fighting unjust wars abroad?

getthewineinthefridge - the lib dems have said a lot more about their policies than the tories and have been more honest and up front. Cameron was completely uninspiring in the leadership debates and didn't answer gordon's questions in the last debate.

People will probably flock in droves to the tories as the press have done their best to engineer an election win for the tories by frightening them about the lib dem immigration policy for eg. They have let Cameron come across as tough on immigration even though he has not said what he will do with the millions of immigrants here or to stop further European legal immigrants coming in. Furthermore the voting system is engineered so that even if the lib dems get the same percentage of votes as the other parties they will get far fewer MPs. The party leaders have only bothered to go to the marginal seats. The many 1000s of people in safe seats have been completely ignored.

My family will probably not lose out much under the tories and might even gain from certain policies but I bet there will be a few public sector workers and people on lower incomes who will do very badly out of a tory govt and come to regret their choice.

scaryteacher again! - Have just seen in the Telegraph (online) they are saying people earning up to 112,000 would benefit from £700 a year if the liberal policy of raising the tax threshold to £10,000 were adopted.

The article is called General Election 2010 - how the result could hit your pocket? sorry I don't know how to link.

EDF bought British Energy in 2008.

Haven't missed Vesala's point at all - it doesn't matter if we would benefit from a £10k tax free amount - I am not voting Libdem.

I taught in both sectors, for far longer in the state sector, but had to resign when dh got another overseas appointment with the RN. I think teachers would have greater freedom under the Tories, we might even achieve setting in some schools!

Snowlady - well said

I can't bear more of the same.

On immigration. I heartily hope that the immigrants currently in our country stay here. Many have taught our 'indiginous' Brits so much about politeness, family values and a good work ethic. If my children adopt the values demonstrated by the children of the immigrants I know I'd be very proud.

Draw a line. We do need to control as we are a small country. But start afresh.

Can we do a point system on the generations of Brits that have lived too long on credits...and send them somewhere else. I'd swop a few at the schoolgate for double the number of immigrants.

Defence is about our military capability initially and only then about how it is utilised. The Tories as far as I can see are the only ones who are saying that Foreign policy and Defence policy go hand in hand, and again for that, they get my vote - we will have a joined up policy at last.

We already have setting in schools- at my DCs school this is from reception.

So you are happy with a French company EDF running our electricity supply.