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Politics

Your Vote. UNFAIRNESS. LABOUR

40 replies

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 07:35

Hi. Weve been unable to afford a house for 12 years.

The reasons for rising prices are always shrouded in mist in the political/media debate.

In his 1997 budget, Brown abolished dividend tax credits on pension funds. Companies saw the writing on the wall and immediately ended their final salary pension schemes to new employees shortly after the 'Brown raid'. They also started to cut down on the number of people with long final salary pension service and worked towards ending a scheme which would no longer be viable.

  • The CBI opposed Browns Tax credit cuts. Even the treasury and No.10 opposed them. [But Brown made the cuts anyway.]

2.] By abolishing the pensions tax credit, the yield for institutional funds across the entire market fell by 20 per cent. Few people outside the City understood the change and hardly any MPs protested. But Whitehall papers produced under the Freedom of Information act showed that Mr Brown was warned by his officials and by the Treasury that there would be dire consequences.
They warned it would wipe £50bn off the value of funds, and that shares could drop by up to 20 per cent and public sector pensions would need topping up. [Brown chose to ignore this warning]

  • The value of pension funds have since lost around £5bn per year since the 1997 tax relief cuts. Pension funds holding the cash that almost everyone in the country had planned to use for our retirement have lost around £100 billion over the last 12 years.

3.] The advice Brown was given by this Treasury Paper, in 1997 was as follows:

'The changes in incentives are likely to lead to substantial changes in portfolios. Pension funds will find equity relatively less attractive, and will prefer other assets ? particularly interest bearing securities and foreign equity ? and may also be prompted to consider more direct property investment.'

Those funds were then channelled into fuelling an unsustainable property bubble, BTL portfolios, which developed because of Labours complete lack of regulation of the Banks.This was followed by ever increasing toxic mortgage debt, and this was followed by the bank bailouts.

This is just one example of Gordon Browns incompetent decision making which helped to create the cornerstone of the debt bubble.

4.] In the ten years previous to Browns Raid on pensions, From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.
A 33.3% rise over ten years.
From 1997[post tax dividend cuts] to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k [Nationwide Building Society figures]
A staggering 245% increase over the same period. [Ten years.]

The UK debt bubble stopped inflating at the end of 2003.

But then, Chancellor Brown removed housing costs from the inflation index (in December 2003, from RPI to CPI), despite Bank of England's opposition, to force the Bank to keep interest rates low. Too low.

The UK should not be facing the debt we are facing, and The Labour Party are guilty of gross fiscal mismanagement and criminal negligence.

Raise IR to protect the pound and bring housing back to being affordable once again.
Why should a younger generation pay for your debt?
Whilst keeping your house prices artificially inflated?
We are in effect paying for your houses, whilst being unable to afford our own. That is called Indentured slavery.
We have already been forced to waste tens of thousands in rent over the last nine to ten years.
We are being forced into Debt Bondage.

Our generation WILL hold Brown responsible. Many hundreds of thousnads of disenchanted people, priced out of houng for a decade are looking at the Lib Dems.

The Tories, are only interested in making the 'debt more affordable to pay,' as a pose to tackling the debt itself.

What we need to do is to educate people as to the disastrous reign of Labour.
Tell the people about the debt transfer. Tell them how UNFAIR this is.

OP posts:
skihorse · 03/05/2010 07:49

People simply do not want to open their eyes. Wasn't GB (prudent chancellor ) also responsible for those immortal lines "I will not allow house prices to get out of control" and "no more boom & bust".

I think I have only really one question for Labour supporters when it boils down to it and that would be "Labour's creditcard is up to its limit, how do you propose they continue to pay for CTC, WTC, mass benefits, shiny schools (no room for academic elite), shiny hospitals (no, they're not paid for yet!), etc., etc."?

Beachcomber · 03/05/2010 07:54

OP I happen to think it is rude to come on a forum/name change in order to try to influence others with one's personal political beliefs.

Also if you are going to try to patronise us how about getting your facts and your grammar right?

All these personal attacks we keep seeing on Gordon Brown are very misguided and insular in my opinion. I have a great deal of respect for Mr Brown, he comes across as a principaled man of integrity - pretty rare for a politician in these days of spin, Murdoch media and personality politics.

Beachcomber · 03/05/2010 07:57

Oh and funnily enough if I copy your first paragraph and do a google search on it I can easily see that either;

a)these are not your own words

and/or

b)you troll elsewhere

sarah293 · 03/05/2010 07:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

JackBauerIsZonerrific · 03/05/2010 08:07

Oh don';t worry, OP won't be back, they are too busy trawling the internet copying and pasting this.

I have no opinion, too many words too early.

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 08:19

Beachcomber.

I have nothing at all against you, and I am sorry that you have taken offence.

This is an issue that has affected me and my family greatly, and my understanding of a forum is that free speech is allowed.

This is something I have been learning about, for some time, and yes, I have read this post elsewhere, and shared it here, but it opened my eyes.

I will post in the introductions later.

I am not a troll. And there is no need to call me one.

Surely it is the content of a post which is important?

Thankyou.
Dee

OP posts:
NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 08:21

Im very open minded to comments about why you think this is innacurate. Instead of trying to discredit.......

OP posts:
skihorse · 03/05/2010 08:23

Notyetamum - free speech (on mumsnet) is only allowed in favour of GB! You are more than welcome to voice your opinion. People don't want to hear - that's all.

Riven - agreed, in addition - self-cert mortgages and IO mortgages. It's going to be very unpleasant for a LOT of people when interest rates rise. LA's support artificially high house prices when they "cap" housing benefit at such ridiculous levels that a landlord can claim a huge amount from the council... which of course means his/her mortgage can be massive - doesn't matter - council pays. It does bloody well matter if you or I wish to buy a house without having to sell the soul of our firstborn to pay for it!

JackBauerIsZonerrific · 03/05/2010 08:24

DOn't get me wrong, there are some good points in what you say, and every time I see gordon brown DH has to put up with me from shouting 'LIAR' at the screen.

But maybe try putting it in your own words so it doesn't look exactly like political trolling as we are getting a LOT of that on here. (hence beachcomber checking)

(all meant in nicest possible way, well, as nice as can be before I'd havd coffee anwyay)

Beachcomber · 03/05/2010 08:26

Sorry but I don't see things that way. It is a generally accepted although unwritten rule that new posters do not jump in by telling others what to do whether it be about how to feed their children or who to vote for. It is just plain bad manners to do otherwise.

I think you will find that I commented on the 'content' of your post - it has been plastered all over the internet.

Free speech for you to copy and paste it here and free speech for me to point that out.

skihorse · 03/05/2010 08:27

lol @ "new posters have no right to an opinion" - hahaha, fuck me, are you a caricature of mumsnet?

SparklyGothKat · 03/05/2010 08:29

we have no shiny hospital we were supposed to have a 'super hospital' costing 10m but that was pulled by the government and now they are making our local hospital a genernal hospital with no A&E, no maternity unit, they have removed the childrens ward, childrens A&E only operates between 8-8 after that we have travel 15 miles down the motorway to the next hospital and hope we don't get caught in traffic.

People are going to die and woman are going to be giving birth in their cars when it does finally happen, because if you get caught in rushhour it takes upto an hour to get to the next hospital. I gave birth to Ds2 at the other hospital as our nearest doesn't take woman in labour under 34 weeks anymore (my DD1, 31 weeks and DD2, 33 weeks) were both born at the local one) It took DH almost 50 minutes to get back to me at 6pm, DS2 was born 1/2 hour later.

posieparker · 03/05/2010 08:33

caricature

Don't you have a spell check?

And if anyone is going to try and persuade anyone they need to present a balanced point of view...not just a huge slagging off labour post, because subsequent posts will just attack tories and lib dem, too.

I would love to read an informative view on comparative policies.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 03/05/2010 08:34

Thanks for that. Was wondering about the yield for institutional funds and how the City would cope.

Beachcomber · 03/05/2010 08:34

Tell you what, I don't have time just now, but perhaps later I will copy and paste some of the answers that have been given to this post already on all the other forums it has been posted on, yeah?

I'm not trying to discredit or challenge what you say, I'm just pointing out how rude it is to shove a hectoring copy and paste in as one's first post on a supportive parenting forum.

skihorse · 03/05/2010 08:40

posie Feel free to slag off my spelling - when you're done that perhaps you could wind your neck in and stop being so bloody rude to new posters and two, perhaps you could put forward an opposing view to OP's post which involves something vaguely intellectual and/or interesting rather than simply throwing all your toys out of the pram and coming across as a prize bitch.

beachcomber I think your mouse finger has stumbled, you're in the "Politics" section.

sarah293 · 03/05/2010 08:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Beachcomber · 03/05/2010 08:48

Gosh thanks for the hint skihorse, I thought I had clicked on the 'rudely copy and paste political propaganda free for all section' but no you're right it is the normal politics section .

Bumperliouzzzzzz · 03/05/2010 08:49

I'm not even going to try and read the OP as it is Sunday morning and is full of too much crap, however I am mightily sick of politicos coming on here and spouting off their partisan diatribes assuming that we are stupid enough not to notice what they are doing.

I've said this on a Labour thread as well, so it doesn't really matter where you are from, it is counter productive. It makes me want to say 'screw the lot of you, I'm not bloody voting for anyone till you stop treating us like idiots!'

SanctiMoanyArse · 03/05/2010 08:49

please people stop posting to tell us what to vote

Engage in existent political debate but this is getting V V V annoying indeed

We get that people have different views ta, we can find manifesto websites or dip in and out of debate on here, but we are bright enough to seek out and form our own opinions

And btw I also cannot afford to buy my own home; but the CTC system means I can keep paying my rent which is rather usefull. A roof is what ultimately matters surely?
I have no eprsonal debt.
My house is non existent so has not been articially inflated price wise surely?

And it#'s not salvery by any means. I did my dissertation on slavery, trust me on this one. A roof, meals, access to hospitals, free speech, freedom of vote, education- nah things aren't that bad really. Big financial crisis to clear up but could be infinitely worse.

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 08:52

Its Monday Bumper. :0)

Beachcomber. I did change some of the post. So it is not a direct copy and paste.

All we have wanted for a few years now is to be able to buy a small house. If any of these political parties would help, I would vote for them.

Sorry this has caused so much upset.

OP posts:
Bumperliouzzzzzz · 03/05/2010 08:56

It's bank holiday Monday. It's a Sunday in disguise. All the crapness of a Sunday with nothing to do but try and amuse your children and dread going back into work, just on a Monday, which is buy far the worst day of the week.

crystal123 · 03/05/2010 08:56

NOTYETAMUM Thanks for posting this on the
site. It is yet another example of how this Labour government has ruined this country. Under labour we have lost many civil liberties, had mass immigration,huge financial debts, violence and crime has risen rapidly with 30 young people murdered on the streeets of london last year (thats only London) I know of people who have had loved ones murdered, the courts give them 7 years and there out after 3,(Labour has been soft on criminials and violent crime) that and a raft of other reasons is why 475.000 people left this country last year for pastures new. Brown states to Paxman he knew the banking crisis was coming but could do little about it, as the rest of the world would not listen to his advice. This country is barely recognisable to the one from 13 years ago. That is why I and many others will be very glad to see the back of it!!

SanctiMoanyArse · 03/05/2010 08:57

NotYet=-

years ago we owned a small house. I do mean small, tiny of the no entrance hall variant, you know what I mean.

When DH becmasse ill we had to sell it to clear any debt we had and enable us to survive without being an enormous burden.

So we are in rented.

We'd like anohter owned house of course- and hope so one day but IME it is not all it is cut out to be, home ownership. Desirable yes but not in any way a bringer of happiness you cannot get in rented accomodation.

posieparker · 03/05/2010 09:00

Skihorse.....
I thought you were the annoying OP actually. but still, just install google Chrome and all spelling mistakes are highlighted.

Prize bitch, indeed? For this? Really?

"And if anyone is going to try and persuade anyone they need to present a balanced point of view...not just a huge slagging off labour post, because subsequent posts will just attack tories and lib dem, too.

I would love to read an informative view on comparative policies."

I can do prize bitch, but this is not, not even close.

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