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Politics

Your Vote. UNFAIRNESS. LABOUR

40 replies

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 07:35

Hi. Weve been unable to afford a house for 12 years.

The reasons for rising prices are always shrouded in mist in the political/media debate.

In his 1997 budget, Brown abolished dividend tax credits on pension funds. Companies saw the writing on the wall and immediately ended their final salary pension schemes to new employees shortly after the 'Brown raid'. They also started to cut down on the number of people with long final salary pension service and worked towards ending a scheme which would no longer be viable.

  • The CBI opposed Browns Tax credit cuts. Even the treasury and No.10 opposed them. [But Brown made the cuts anyway.]

2.] By abolishing the pensions tax credit, the yield for institutional funds across the entire market fell by 20 per cent. Few people outside the City understood the change and hardly any MPs protested. But Whitehall papers produced under the Freedom of Information act showed that Mr Brown was warned by his officials and by the Treasury that there would be dire consequences.
They warned it would wipe £50bn off the value of funds, and that shares could drop by up to 20 per cent and public sector pensions would need topping up. [Brown chose to ignore this warning]

  • The value of pension funds have since lost around £5bn per year since the 1997 tax relief cuts. Pension funds holding the cash that almost everyone in the country had planned to use for our retirement have lost around £100 billion over the last 12 years.

3.] The advice Brown was given by this Treasury Paper, in 1997 was as follows:

'The changes in incentives are likely to lead to substantial changes in portfolios. Pension funds will find equity relatively less attractive, and will prefer other assets ? particularly interest bearing securities and foreign equity ? and may also be prompted to consider more direct property investment.'

Those funds were then channelled into fuelling an unsustainable property bubble, BTL portfolios, which developed because of Labours complete lack of regulation of the Banks.This was followed by ever increasing toxic mortgage debt, and this was followed by the bank bailouts.

This is just one example of Gordon Browns incompetent decision making which helped to create the cornerstone of the debt bubble.

4.] In the ten years previous to Browns Raid on pensions, From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.
A 33.3% rise over ten years.
From 1997[post tax dividend cuts] to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k [Nationwide Building Society figures]
A staggering 245% increase over the same period. [Ten years.]

The UK debt bubble stopped inflating at the end of 2003.

But then, Chancellor Brown removed housing costs from the inflation index (in December 2003, from RPI to CPI), despite Bank of England's opposition, to force the Bank to keep interest rates low. Too low.

The UK should not be facing the debt we are facing, and The Labour Party are guilty of gross fiscal mismanagement and criminal negligence.

Raise IR to protect the pound and bring housing back to being affordable once again.
Why should a younger generation pay for your debt?
Whilst keeping your house prices artificially inflated?
We are in effect paying for your houses, whilst being unable to afford our own. That is called Indentured slavery.
We have already been forced to waste tens of thousands in rent over the last nine to ten years.
We are being forced into Debt Bondage.

Our generation WILL hold Brown responsible. Many hundreds of thousnads of disenchanted people, priced out of houng for a decade are looking at the Lib Dems.

The Tories, are only interested in making the 'debt more affordable to pay,' as a pose to tackling the debt itself.

What we need to do is to educate people as to the disastrous reign of Labour.
Tell the people about the debt transfer. Tell them how UNFAIR this is.

OP posts:
crystal123 · 03/05/2010 09:01

MOANYARSE If you haven't noticed this is a MN politics site!

SanctiMoanyArse · 03/05/2010 09:08

CAn we cut the spelling shite please?

I have been hurt by that despite having ssignificant eyesight issues; have encountered people upset becuase they have dyslexia as well

I can outspell pretty much anyone in RL but I cannot type and I am sure a great many useful and intelligents people out there have a lot to say regardless of a spelling mistake or two

It's petty crap

I never agree with anything Ski says but FGS keep to the matter of debate

SanctiMoanyArse · 03/05/2010 09:11

Crystal

It's not a MN polictics site in fact

It's apolitics area within a wider MN website

So people who post on the wider website are very, very welcome to post here, as I do, with opinions

That doesn't mean we need the endless patronising posts from all parties please

There's a difference between

'This is my take on X Y Z; what does anyone else think' and 'This si the3 way it is: drown in the figurs and weep'

Now, I know that you yourself crystal are of teh hmm, how shall we say? Dubious trying to tell us what to do thread starter ilk so obviosuly youa re somewhat biased.

but whereas the tories on here do nbot in anyway share my beleifs, most of them manage to enage with the woder site and, you know, listen

JackBauerIsZonerrific · 03/05/2010 09:18
crystal123 · 03/05/2010 09:30

MOANYARSE Of course I'm biased like you!
That is what these threads are all about, different people and their opinions, getting up each others nose, and sometimes even agreeing with each other!

Janos · 03/05/2010 10:07

"Notyetamum - free speech (on mumsnet) is only allowed in favour of GB! "

I think you must be reading a different site then skihorse, because there absolutely loads are loads of posts here presenting a conservative point of view.

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 14:37

I would like to see Gordon Brown try to answer the questions and accusations in this post.

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 03/05/2010 15:27

Well you can ask him if you like, he will be on MN tonight.

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 16:31

Ok then. I might.

OP posts:
salizchap · 03/05/2010 16:32

I agree, SMA, I think too much importance is put on getting a mortgage and pretending you own your house.

The main problem from my point of view is the massively inflated cost of renting. Renting a dignified, suitable home, should be a cheap, or at least affordable right for all. Even someone on the NMW should be able to support a family in decent housing. However, on the open market, private rents for families are extortionate and far out of the range of anyone who earns below the national average.

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 20:12

Well, he completely ignored my question. Knew he would. :0)

Oh well. Hopefully at least he read it.

OP posts:
SanctiMoanyArse · 03/05/2010 20:27

He ignored lots of our questions, they always do, never enough time

hardly personal

Beachcomber · 03/05/2010 21:10

NYAM1 it wasn't a question though was it. Of course he couldn't address it in a short webchat.

I reckon he has won some votes with his deficit answer and his fair answers to Riven and Hunker.

I don't have very high regard for many politicians but I think Mr Brown is excellent.

NotYetAMum1 · 03/05/2010 21:46

Hi.

It was a question! It is a very fair question. I could never have asked him the ranty one above. :0)

But this is a very fair question to Mr Brown, from everyone who has been pricedout of housing.

I have nothing against the man as a person.

But he has destroyed the dreams and aspirations of generations. And ruined the economy.

We will have to agree to disagree. :0)

[On reflection Im now sure it would have been better for me to make my first post one about antenatal care or something along thos elines.

NotYetAMum1 Mon 03-May-10 19:46:13

Hello Mr Brown.

We have been unable to afford a house for a number of years.

The reasons for rising prices are always shrouded in mist in the political/media debate.

In the 1997 budget, you abolished dividend tax credits on pension funds. Companies saw the writing on the wall and immediately ended their final salary pension schemes to new employees shortly after.
They also started to cut down on the number of people with long final salary pension service and worked towards ending a scheme which would no longer be viable.

When you abolished the pensions tax credit, the yield for institutional funds across the entire market fell by 20 per cent. Few people outside the City understood the change and hardly any MPs protested. But Whitehall papers produced under the Freedom of Information act showing that you were warned by your officials and by the Treasury that there would be dire consequences.

3.] The advice you were given, in 1997 was as follows:

'The changes in incentives are likely to lead to substantial changes in portfolios. Pension funds will find equity relatively less attractive, and will prefer other assets ? particularly interest bearing securities and foreign equity ? and may also be prompted to consider more direct property investment.'

Much of those funds were then channelled into fuelling an unsustainable property bubble, BTL portfolios, which developed because of Labours complete lack of regulation of the Banks.
This was followed by ever increasing toxic mortgage debt, and this was followed by the bank bailouts.

The UK debt bubble stopped inflating at the end of 2003.

But then, you removed housing costs from the inflation index (in December 2003, from RPI to CPI), despite Bank of England's opposition, to force the Bank to keep interest rates low. [Too low.]

Is this an example of incompetent decision making which helped to create the cornerstone of the debt bubble?

4.] In the ten years previous to the Raid on pensions, From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.
A 33.3% rise over ten years.
From 1997 to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k [Nationwide Building Society figures]
A staggering 245% increase over the same period. [Ten years.]

The UK should not be facing the debt we are facing.

Why should a younger generation pay for your debt?
Whilst keeping your house prices artificially inflated?

We are in effect paying for your houses, whilst being unable to afford our own.

We have already been forced to waste tens of thousands in rent over the last nine to ten years.
We are being forced into Debt Bondage.

There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of disenchanted people, completely priced out of the housing market for a decade are looking at the Lib Dems.

The Tories, seem only interested in making the 'debt more affordable to pay,' as a pose to 'tackling the debt itself.'

You said in 1997 'I will not let House Prices get out of control.'

Do you think that this debt transfer is UNFAIR?

OP posts:
alysonpeaches · 03/05/2010 21:56

cant be arsed to read all that

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