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MNers get your heads out of the sand. Economist says Tories deserve to win.

124 replies

whifflegarden · 30/04/2010 12:58

Here . On the basis of policies, according to the economist, Tories deserve to win. I agree with them, and if after the last 13 years of wasting public money, poor financial sector regulation, sell off of assets at the lowest price, you people are still buying the Labour line then god help you !!

We have a time bomb of a legacy according to the economist, and I agree. God help us if we wake up on May 7th to a Labour government. The markets will go into meltdown. Greece, now Spain debt now have junk status...will we follow them? You decide.

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PandaSam · 30/04/2010 13:01

Well said! I absolutely agree. I'm so surprised how many MNers back Labour.

Who could honestly want Gordon Brown to still be in power this time next week?

SethStarkaddersMum · 30/04/2010 13:07

good article. I like the Economist.
there are so many things I like about Labour and dislike about the Tories but IMO the economy is the key issue by a long way and the Tories are the most credible on that this time.

whifflegarden · 30/04/2010 13:30

I'm a Tory supporter. I don't rate DC, but always remind myself I'm voting for the party not the man. DH, voted for Tony Blair in 1997 because he felt that the Labour party had more to offer at the time.

yy, I am also so confused that so many intelligent women, are planning to vote for Labour, after what has been done to our public finances?????

We are all going to have to make sacrifices; banish the sense of entitlement and bring in a new era of celebrating entrepreneurship and innovation.

Out of every £4 spent by the government, £1 is borrowed. The private sector is being squezzed to prop up a bloated public sector. This is not sustainable people.

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Alibabaandthe40nappies · 30/04/2010 13:36

whiffle I am confused as well. I genuinely don't understand where people think all the money is going to come from to keep all the freebies that Labour have handed out.

If he had been a good and 'prudent' Chancellor as he liked to think himself, then we would not be in this position. Yes there would have been a recession, and probably a banking crisis, but we would now be in the position of countries like France and Germany, rather than Greece and Portugal. We could have been well on the road to recovery rather than staring austerity measures in the face.

Jojay · 30/04/2010 13:38

Excellent article, and I agree with them.

ExpatAgain · 30/04/2010 13:41

well, i like dc but can't bring myself to vote tory..
i thought the Institue for Fiscal Studies said that ALL the parties were in denial on this issue? whoever is in gov regardless of what they may say this side of an election is going to have to make some serious cuts, introduce tax/vat/nic increases etc to dela with this unprecedented financial crisis.

whifflegarden · 30/04/2010 13:44

Expat, who do you think is most likely to make the necessary cuts?

Labour have spent us into this position and seem unable to say the cunt word.

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ernietheferny · 30/04/2010 13:49

I may be being shortsighted but I can't help
remembering the tory handling of the last recession. Are you all so young that no-one remembers the high inflation, high unemployment and interest rates at 15% of the early 90's. It was one of the hardest times for our family. We have lost a business in this recession but the fact that interest rates have been kept really low, keeping our mortgage at a reasonable level and being able to access a relatively low cost business loan, have allowed us the time to establish a new business which now provides a modest income for our family keeping us from personal bankcruptcy and more importantly off benefits.
I also heard a historian on radio 4 talking about how the level of borrowing we have now(in percentage terms against GDP)),is not uncommon, to avoid a deep recession, in our country's history and I felt reassured that he said that over all it seemed to have been an effective policy to promote growth and recovery.
Whilst there are many areas of Labour policy that I don't agree with I do think on the economy their priorities have worked for us and for many others like us. I am very fearful of another conservative government.

Phrenology · 30/04/2010 13:57

Bring it on.....woo hoo....

BeenBeta · 30/04/2010 14:10

Yes Cameron does deserve to win after what I heard last night.

Interesting blog post ths morning fron Guido about last nights debate and how Cameron came across much more Thatcherite and he won the debate hands down.

"There were no mentions of worthy ?Big Society? concepts, no vacuous ?vote blue, go green? slogans. Time worn, winning Tory messages were pitched; tougher immigration rules, tackling welfare dependency, lower business taxes, sound money and smaller government. Result? Clear win for the Tory leader."

People feel uneasy about uncontrolled immigration, they know where will have to be spendng cuts and that people who can work should not live on benefits all their lives. Cameron hit those those hot buttons last night. He is not a rabid Tory and instictively socially liberal (which I like) but for the first time in the whole campaign I felt I understood at least some of what his policies were and what he is aiming to do.

I would go as far as to say that I hope the ratings in the insant polls after the debate last night reflect how people will actually vote next Thursday. It was a clear win for Cameron last night and I hope that translate sinto a clear majority next Thursday.

If there is no clear Tory majority, our only hope in a hung Parliament is that Clegg will persuade his party to join with supporting the Tories but I thought he was a lot less convincing last night and his party is well to he left of his personal views.

Clegg worked for Sir Leon Brittan as speech writer. Iain Dale speculated that Clegg voted for Thatcher in 1987. I suspect he is personally probably not a million miles away from Cameron on many things.

I think Clegg and Cameron could form a good orking relationship but people on the left and right of their repsective parties will make it too unstable.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 30/04/2010 14:10

I think whoever wrote the article is a bit of a Tory anyway;

"it is foolish to rule out letting for-profit companies run schools and wrong to exempt the NHS from cuts"

Er... why?

SethStarkaddersMum · 30/04/2010 14:14

ernie - am not too young to remember the 90s, am old enough to remember the 70s!

ooojimaflip · 30/04/2010 14:28

TheHeathenOfSuburubia - You don't need to be a Tory to hold those views. Ruling things out for populist rather than practical reasons is foolish for starters. Exempting the NHS from cuts results in deeper cuts being made in other areas. I would rather see an analysis of where cuts would cause the least damage rather than creating sacred cows.
Why should for-profit companies NOT run schools? If the education is as good or better and the cost is the same and lower then that is surely to the good? Just because you don't believe that can be acheived that doesn't mean it should be ruled out.

mumblechum · 30/04/2010 14:33

Christ I really can't decide. This morning I was all set for voting for Labour, now I'm not sure, maybe there was too much of a gravy train with all those tax credits, CTFs etc.

Whoever gets in we're all going to find our taxes hoiked up (well, those working. Those not working will find benefits cut, whether they're trying to find a job or not)

ooojimaflip · 30/04/2010 14:34

whifflegarden - I also like the Economist. I agree with it's position on most things. I probably even agree with that article.

What it doesn't say though is that the Tories 'deserve' to win (I don't think that would make it past the style guide). Nor is it a ringing endorsement of the Tories.

We need cuts. The Tories are good at cuts. Maybe we should just let them get on with it, loathsome as much of their core support is.

whifflegarden · 30/04/2010 14:49

If no tory outright win, then I actually hope for a lab/lib coalition. Let them eat eachother alive, we'll be back within 12 months with a clear win..and smuggery.

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AuraofDora · 30/04/2010 14:57

would prefer to see a change in the whole system and that could be a possibility in this election
tories dont deserve to win though and would never contemplate voting for them and should be much further ahead given they only had to beat gordon brown....
they are good at cuts and slashing but rarely hurt their own...

SomeGuy · 30/04/2010 15:21

The Economist backed Labour the last 4 elections didn't they?

SethStarkaddersMum · 30/04/2010 15:56

My impression of the Economist is that it is fairly right-leaning but not dogmatically so. I think it is for the most part read by people interested in making money, so it's always going to prioritise that angle on things, but it's open-minded and rational enough to recognise when traditional Tory politics is not economically the best solution. Or when it is.

ooojimaflip · 30/04/2010 16:04

I don't think the Economist would describe itself as left or right wing. It IS explicitly Economically Liberal (free markets, minimal state intervention, prefer smaller over large state, pro-immigration), and Socially Liberal (pro-equality, pro-state support for the poor, pro-universal health care, Human rights, free press, anti-censorship, pro-democracy etc). In fact it would probably not differentiate between the too and would consider the two aspects of Liberalism to rely on and support each other.

It tries to be rigorously pragmatic and analytical within that framework. There is not actually that much in it about making money for the sake of it.

ooojimaflip · 30/04/2010 16:05

It does have a streak of willful contriarianism as well

tootsieroll · 30/04/2010 16:07

I thought, based on last night's debate, that the Tories came across as the most realistic. Like one of the questioners (?Nadine), it's clear that cuts have to be made somewhere. I like the Tories' line of cutting waste now so a rise in NI can be prevented (my home country is doing something similar, and economy is growing). That is seriously a big killer for small businesses. Don't want a boarded up high street? Cut jobs tax, corporation tax. Give people an incentive to be entrepeneurs. Whether DC delivers on that we'll have to wait and see, but he's the best of the worst, and after 13 years of Labour, I think he deserves to be given the chance.

SethStarkaddersMum · 30/04/2010 16:10

That's interesting Ooojamaflip
I think the way it tries to be analytical and pragmatic is why I like it so much but I am still only an occasional reader.

NormaSnorks · 30/04/2010 16:16

Basically I trust individuals and small companies and organisations to make better decisions about managing budgets and getting good results over the next decade, rather than handing over my hard-earned cash to an incompetent government (Labour) to fritter away the cash.

I've worked in both the public and private sectors over the last 5 years, and what I saw in the public sector APPALLED me - really so much waste, and bureaucracy and 'jobs-worthness'(?). The big nanny state isn't the answer to many of our problems - the last 13 years have shown us that.
I found myself nodding and agreeing with so many of the values DC taked about last night - self responsibility, family, hard work, ambition, and also focus on the genuinely poor, sick and needy.

I think the Economist is right. It's a well-respected journal (used to read it every week when I was at Uni )
I do hope the Tories get a workable majority, and then we can begin to rebuild this country again.

atlantis · 30/04/2010 17:04

"ernie - am not too young to remember the 90s, am old enough to remember the 70s! "

Well said. Me too. History repeating itself.

I also am split about the Tories getting in, would love to be a fly on the wall if Gordon Brown woke up on May 7th to the realisation that he had to get us out of this bloomin mess he had created, unfortunately I know he wouldn't be able to do it and this country would go the same way as Greece, so am praying for the sake of our children's futures that the Tories get in.

Am a little that they are saying the party that gets in and makes the cuts needed will not see power for another generation though, maybe we should throw the election and let nick the euro prat brat cat and gordon prudence brown go down in flames, i'm sure they would love to skip us into the EU and Euro together, the final nail in our coffin.

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