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Politics

How would you cut spending?

122 replies

ninna · 21/04/2010 09:47

In view of the huge amount of money we have to borrow every month, I would presume that most people would agree that we need to make savings? If you don't agree, it would be interesting to hear why. If you do agree, how do you think we ought to do it?

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 21:15

I'm really not in favour of any change in benefits, however, that targets lone parents until there is first change targeting the absent parent who is not paying his/her share of support towards children he/she created.

mizu · 23/04/2010 21:47

Yes dont pick on us public sector workers! Our pay where I work has been frozen for 2 years already. I work as a techer in an FE college nearly 4 days a week and earn peanuts in comparison to school teachers.

Something needs to be done re benefits i agree and EMA too, how sad is it that we need to pay our young people to continue their education and better themselves. We don't know how lucky we are living here.

mizu · 23/04/2010 21:49

Whoops, I mean teacher

Doodleydoo · 23/04/2010 21:57

I think those GP's that do earn 150k are meant to pay people out of that so that is to run a whole surgery etc whilst paying themselves and others rather than 150k just for them but I am sure a gp will let us know more.

Clarissimo · 23/04/2010 22:09

I don't know mizu, most of my friends when I as a kid gave up education at 16 becuase their famillies needed them to go straight into work: I was hte lucky one. But i'd rather see all kids at collge get £15 a head that see so amny struggling famillies miss out. Eitehr educational attendace post 16 is worth a few quid to the state or it is not.

Trie why TA's?

expatinscotland · 23/04/2010 22:24

'No tax ceredits expat mean we have to go into council accom,'

Um, I suggested this after 4 kids.

You have 4.

Also after tocc's post, which I took into consideration, thought maybe some other way to cut back.

It can't go on the way it is, sadly, and that goes for pensions, too.

Clarissimo · 23/04/2010 22:58

Right Ok I missed the bit about 4 kids and dh is booked in for a vasectomy so we aren't going to top that (phew)- sorry, I guess these threads scare me sometimes and I over reacted.

How I would revise benefits-

the way I se it most people want a system that protects those who have been unliucky (redundancy / illness / etc) but doesn't allow people to sit on their arses their entire life draining society of their taxes and contributing sod all, yes?

I'd have a date set inte last week of September each year (to corresppond with training institutions). On that date, everyone who has been out of work more than 6 months and claiming IS or JSA would have to show that theya re either in training (inclusing studying) or undertaking voluntary work. I wouldn't have an established work - to - benefit scheme: there are plenty of oportunities anyway, schools helping with reading or whatever: one of the main reasons my former employing charity went under was becuase nobody wanted to be a volunteer. Forcing set schemes would ctually hit those charities as much as it would hit the lwoer skilled job availability as per YTS. Whilst requiring voluntary work or training emans people are constantly moving forwards.

This would apply to people with a child over 5 if a lone parent. If a couple, one could nominate themselves as carer parent and have that exemption. In balance colleges / training instituoiotns would be required to expand the availability of training that fits around school hours, as certainly locally institutions are moving away from that model in order to maximise room usage and that negatively impacts on the ability of parents to establish themselves a reliable job.

Thise whi refused if tney have no chidlren don't get benefits. fair enough. Those with children get a % then in vouchers which will negatively impact on thier options whilst hopefully not penalising the chidlren if at all possible.

I'd keep teh 16 hour tc rule ebcuase there are a lot of people for whom 16 hours is all they can do becuase theya re workinga roundd retraining, or a single aprent struggling with childcare, or have ill ehalth, or cannot find anything else. We certainly don't want a state where people turn down 16 hr jobs becuase theyc an't pay enough to be worthwhiel: working people are far more likely to find suitable jobs in the long term and keep their skills updayted. It is also a key difference between children growing up in a working or non working household, there is a basic bonus seeing your fmily get up, go out to work, make the effort even if not full time.

I can't remember tha neame for the benefit that replaced IB but it should be amended sothat it has a base in relaism. Forcing people who are genuinely unable to work onto teh dole becuase of targets helps nobody. We have to fuind a way to run arealistic system where we are not gi ing in to skvers but nbeitehr penalising genuinely ill / disbaled people in the name of stats.

I don't know anything about teh health in pregnancy grants as after my time, so won't comment on them. CB still ahs the lofty aim of being apid to the mother so she has access to cash whatever, and I applaud that as still current. I would actually cut that off at 4 children (5 if the latter pregnancy is a multiple). I wouldn't limit TC's though. There's a massie difference that I imagine most share between wanting to stop the baby gravy train and activlyy penalising small children.

I would means test heating allowances but expand the group to cover the disabled too. ANd i'd probably make it per hosuehold- as a household with 2 disabled kids I woudln't see our expenses would double for heating with each subsequent sn child tbh. Electric / gas is either on or off after all.

And absolutely target the unnecessary quangos, middle management, etc. But always remeber that public sector is also nurses, respite for carers lucky enough to get it, street sweepers: and crucially that it is jobs, and if those people are jobless then they too will be needing state supportrather than paying taxes. Rationalise, expect a fair days work for fair pay but equally remember where those people end up if not there- on the dole line.

The pension system I know very little about as I have been removed from the workforce for other reasons however it is clear that the retirement age has to be addressed: i'd [op it tom 37 and then have a half rate between that and 70, as a lot of people like my Dad can manage PT work but not FT at that age (Dad has a physical job). howevfer if someone over 65 is made jobless through ill health ther may be a way to certificate them on to pension scheme early.

Clarissimo · 23/04/2010 22:59

Oh shite that went on

sorry

must be bed time if I am waffling

edam · 23/04/2010 23:10

The problem with means testing benefits is that it costs an awful lot of money. You end up spending as much in admin as you would have saved - if not more. Superficially attractive but not actually sensible in practice. (At least, for universal benefits with not much money going to lots of people.)

Clarissimo · 23/04/2010 23:25

Yes, but there usually sem to be tag ons that people could attach to- for exmaple with ehating allowance can't that be weighed upon whetehr someone gets Pension credit or not (or a set rate thereof)

It does seem bizarre that when you have so many agencies dealing withe very aspect of ones life, they can't just talk to each other.

thumbwitch · 24/04/2010 00:53

By expatinscotland Fri 23-Apr-10 14:55:35
'Instead, they should be put to work in the areas where personnel are required. An interesting policy, not sure it would be workable - but it would reduce benefit payments.'

What it will do is allow employers to cut back on jobs for people as they know they can get work done for free from people on benefits.

Er, no - that's not what he was suggesting. He said they should get NO benefits and should be MADE to go to WORK in PAID EMPLOYMENT in areas where the personnel are required. Sorry I obviously didn't make that clear enough.

expatinscotland · 24/04/2010 08:10

'He said they should get NO benefits and should be MADE to go to WORK in PAID EMPLOYMENT in areas where the personnel are required.'

So how does he propose to compel employers to hire unwilling workers? What incentive is he going to give employers to do this and how much is it going to cost, because I can assure you employers aren't going to hire long-term unemployed who don't want to work without some type of sweetner, because hiring such people could negatively affect their business and livelihood.

thumbwitch · 24/04/2010 08:49

I don't know - he hasn't mentioned that. Perhaps you could email him and ask him?

expatinscotland · 24/04/2010 09:02

'Perhaps you could email him and ask him?'

Why should I? I'm not Australian and don't vote there.

You're the one who brought it up.

thumbwitch · 24/04/2010 09:07

you're the one who wanted those answers - I was just giving it as an example of what one political body thought was a good idea.

expatinscotland · 24/04/2010 09:12

You brought it up as an example on how to cut benefits and queried its feasibility.

I pointed out how it might not work.

Then you brought it up again.

It's your example. From Australia. You follow it up if you throw it out.

Otherwise, meh. It's from Australia.

expatinscotland · 24/04/2010 09:13

I'm voting for leaders of the UK in a UK election. Really can't be arsed about Australia.

abride · 24/04/2010 09:47

'dont pick on us public sector workers! Our pay where I work has been frozen for 2 years already.'

Why shouldn't it have been frozen? Inflation has been very low. In the private sector some of us have been on reduced pay for some years. And I expect you have a better pension than most private sector workers.

edam · 24/04/2010 11:21

and while people are squabbling amongst themselves about who has it harder, public or private sector workers, the real villains in the City are getting away with their ill-gotten gains.

sweetkitty · 24/04/2010 16:00

Once you earn about a certain amount (low 20K I think) it doesn't matter whether you have one or six children you get the same amount of Tax Credits, also between 25 (again I think) and 55K it is the same amount £10 a week unless you have a child under one then it is £20.

That doesn't seem right IMO so if you are on 24K with 5 children you get the same amount as someone on 54K with one.

abride · 24/04/2010 21:25

Yes but people have a choice as to how many children they have. In an overpopulated country we don't need to be incentivising (horrid word) people to swell numbers.

merryberry · 24/04/2010 21:37

if i had a magic wand i would do 2 things

  • kill off NHS connecting for health and claw back all the cash spent on it (i know, fantasy)
  • let people in the public sector actually sack the non-performers we're stuffed with (i know, fantasy)
Clarissimo · 25/04/2010 09:24

Perhaps abride

But many people ahve already amde that choice or amde it in utmost faith of a secure future

Is it a 'from now on if you ahve X children you won't...' in which case I would breathe a sigh of relief whilst simulttaneously hating the fact that i'm placing more value on my family's security than on futurte generations, or is it with acceptance that a lot of famillies who did make a best faith decision then get caugfht out in the mass redundancies would get hurt?

I suspect that even with a potential financial penalty we'd have had ds4, feeling secure but also would acknowledge that our family is far from usual so chocie we've made as a result might not reflect those we'd have amde if things had been nore stereotypical (broadly, we felt we had an inkling of what caused ds1 / ds3's asd and felt that ds2 needed an nt sibling in case the way care works meant he ended up being sole carer and basically having no life- as I say far freom the usual).

I don't know a lot of large famillies in RL- the ones I do either parents are quite well off or the only one I know where they are not, parents had a permanent inability to use contraception effectively. But there are not a lot of low income famillies at our school so I know a very unrepresentative bunch.

I suspect if that's something we want to address though, a good aple to start would be to ask people why they did make the choice to have a large family; as far as I am aware nobody has actually done that yet.

Clarissimo · 25/04/2010 09:25

And Eam wrt to the city- YY absolutely.

edam · 25/04/2010 11:25

Glad to hear it Clarissimo - am amazed that ordinary people like most of us on this thread (i.e. non fat cats) can be so easily diverted into fighting for the scraps amongst ourselves, rather than focusing on the guys who stole all our money.

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