How would you cut spending?

[ninna]

In view of the huge amount of money we have to borrow every month, I would presume that most people would agree that we need to make savings? If you don't agree, it would be interesting to hear why. If you do agree, how do you think we ought to do it?

I clicked on "Chop, chop - where should cuts fall?" thinking this was going to be about haircuts!

Me too debaronz, but whilst at it Health in Preg grants seem bonkers to me and should be means tested at the very least. and this is coming from someone who will recieve it very shortly. I managed last time without it and am sure I will manage this time too. however at the same time I find myself thinking if they are handing it out I am not going to turn it down. Which makes me feel pretty crap really but..........

I do think that there are a lot of people who are skimming the benefits thing, or at least have been in the past - with a recession on it is more difficult as there will be genuine cases out there too but the ones that annoy me are those getting lots of benefits with brand new tvs, loads of brand new gear and lording it up all over the place about how they are playing the system (those you see in Closer magazine etc)

"my issue with the limits on child related benefits past a certain number is those who have been tootling along ok with 4/5/6 children, and then suddenly
find themselves having to claim benefits. It seems harsh to penalise their children beccause other people take the p*ss."

But child benefit is given to everyone - and IMO there should be a limit. If you can't afford five children then you shouldn't be having five children. People need to take some personal responsibility as well - atm it's too easy to do what we want because there is the state assistance to fall back on.

And in all seriousness everyone is going to have to make sacrifices. It's not reasonable to expect just the well off to pick up the tab while the less well off reep the benefits (by benefits I mean get the advantage as opposed to state benefits obv)..

If only the well off are made to pay, then you are going to build an even bigger class divide than there already is, with the more well off (and we're talking people who earn over £40k here as per some peoples' suggestion, so not massively rich) becoming hugely resentful of the less well off because everything they earn is taken away to give to them.

It's like communism really and it doesn't work.

wannaba - you've missed my point.

Of course children should only have the ones they can afford.

However - it's sadly quite common for families with 4/5/6 etc children to be coping perfectly well finanicially, working etc etc, and then for something to happen which means they have to claim benefits, or take a massive drop in pay.

If that family of 7 suddenly finds they are only going to be given CTC, CB etc to support 2 or 3 of their children then it is the children who will suffer.

Yes- exactly what happened to us Toccata. And youc an't hand children back can you (as id I woiu;ld but YKWIM): Wannabe knows our stopry anyway (do you know I am Peachy Wannabe?) but for anyone who dosn't DH amde redundant and I am a carer.

Luckily DH is slowly building up the business he started so it is very much a temporary dependence whilst he does that and retrains but nevertheless we had no reason to suspect this would happen: we weren't recession casualties, Dh worked for TNT offshoot when they decided to purtsue the postal amrlket and close his highly profitable dept to make way.

The support we are getting fropm TC's is enabling dh to retrain and start teh business, otherwise he'd be on the massive South E Wales scrapheap which is apprently top 2 biggest redundacy hit areas in UK.

I know which option i think is most reposnsible tbh- and we are taking it.

OTOHwould gladly ahnd over our CTF payments, stop trident etc

mjinhifing I dont acftually ahve a problem for work for benefits (well I do but will explain later) but I presume you'd include training in exclusion list?

My issue with work for benefits 9and it is the only one) is that if businesses can get a claimant in for free or very little then that will cut down the number of undskileld jobs availanble, which is what seemed to happen with YTS. Morally i think good but not sure about the practicality tbh.

Cuts of over management in NHS, Councils, Westminster, Police and Education. Front line services can be kept same but pen pushers behind them need cutting severely. In school we now see one Head and a plethora of deputies. One deputy is enough and two in a larger school however, the policies and paperwork they have to keep needs slashing. Not just reducing a bit - slashing. Ofsted can go. League tables to go. HMI can be continued in a smaller way and only going into schools where there are major concerns. Techers can assess a child on a termly basis using their professional view not hundreds of pieces of paper and targets. No ID cards. Cuts in benefits for non workers with no intention of working. Ability for those on DLA to do voluntary work which is often more flexible than a job and can fit around their illness. Reduction in writing of laws reducing our civil rights.

Oh and whilst we couldn't take a cut atm we would happily agree to a benefits freeze for 3 years as a way of doing our bit (we can't take a cut becuase we don't claim all we are entitled to, eg CTB, so cut it close in an effort to do our bit already)

We are a seriously long way from communism in this country - the gap between rich and poor is bigger now than at any time since Charles Dickens was writing Hard Times. That's an astonishing failure for a Western developed nation in the 21st century. Those who have done very nicely indeed from the boom should take their fair share of the misery from the bust. From each according to his means, to each according to his needs.

Govt. should stop wasting billions of pounds of public money on expensive management consultants with Masters of Bugger All who state the bleeding obvious.

Terry Leahy, love him or loathe him, spends a fortnight every year on the shop floor. If more managers followed his example, we might have a happier society.

Save money in the NHS by slashing doctors salaries. No GP needs to earn £150 k. They would do the job anyway - where else could they earn a decent wage (say £80k for example) for 45 hours a week, recession proof job. Most people I know, other than those in medicine, who earn over £80 work hugely long hours 50 weeks a year.

Don't pick on us public sector workers - we're already massively underpaid compared to our equivalents in the private sector!!!

The EMA has been around forever - I got it when I was 16 (am now 33) and without it I wouldn't have been able to get my 4 A'levels even with the part time job I had which paid me 1.95 an hour when I started Having said that perhaps it needs to be better regulated so that those that are entitled to it have to be attending/achieving or swap it for vouchers that can ony be used on materials or transport....

Someone was talking about single mothers... I was a child of a single mother under tories - not pretty. My father ran off with some lovely woman (ahem) and left my mother high and dry with 4 kids. The situation is much better now and at least single mothers don't have to worry about the roof over their head. My mother couldn't afford us to have packed lunches like all my friends, so I had free school meals, dressed in hand me downs from family friends (which meant a lot of my clothes were too old for me as I was very tall and other mothers used to assume and call me a slag ) I could go on all day about the way we suffered as a result of my father's selfishness whilst he lived the life of luxury. My sister has unfortunatley gone through something similar, but is in a much better position and thank god for sure start!

Again, having said that perhaps things could be better managed in some areas so that the children don't suffer and those parents who keep all the money for themselves can't do that.

If he was getting 75 quid pocket money a month then no he didn't need it!

The problem is there is a huge assumption that parents will pay for their childs education, and it affects the EMA and University stuff. I don't know how better to work it out really, same with student loans/grants.

RE Civil Service pensions: the final salary pension scheme was closed to new entrants in July 2007. Anyone who's joined the Civil Service since then can't get one.

i think people forget that any mother could end up in the same sad sitution as many single mothers, scraping to make ends meet and relying on the government for help.

my sister's ex took out a massive loan against their house without her knowing and never repaid any of it leaving her and her 3 kids homeless and without any money at all. The first she knew was when she received a letter saying the court were putting the debt against the house (apparenlty it's all legal) and he fecked off.

your experience of people "rallying around" when you were a single mother are different to mine of people staying the hell away and treating us like freaks because it wasn't the norm for parents to split up. unfortunately my mother's parents died quite young, and my father's family turned their backs on us when he left so she had no family to help either, so didn't go back to work for a while. She didn't have a job when he left as we were all quite young, my brother only a couple of months.

i can't help worrying that if things are cut in this area that it's the children that will suffer

GPs don't all earn £150,000. In fact, most of us don't.
Just for the record, I earn £60,000 for a 40 hr week.

There are also hundreds perhaps thousands of people that have been fecked over on their civil service final salary pension who are in their 50s - due to problems with admin which has meant they're due to get a lot less than they thought

do you know what - my GP is fantastic and I don't begrudge him whatever salary he earns

and i doubt he's on anywhere near 150k - i've seen his car!

Speaking as a Civil Servant, I think there are plenty of cuts that could be made. One of the managers in my office flies weekly to London for meetings that could easily be done by video conference. Multiply this many times and there's a saving.
Also, whilst I would be against slashing the Civil Service final salary pension for current members, I could see the point of raising the age that staff are entitled to receive it from 60 to 65. In the days when many people receive no occupational pension, I think this would be reasonable.
Also, slash the layers of useless management in the NHS. After years of working with them, I know how you can't have a straightforward meeting with one of them without a dozen turning up!
And I'd raise the higher tax rate to 50% (or maybe 45%) to ensure the wealthy take their share of the pain too.

means test the winter fuel allowance and child benefit, scrap child trust fund and id cards,
scrap trident. lots more co payments in the nhs. loose the teaching assistants.

oh dear I have come over all right wing.

of course my earlier post should have said that parents should only have the children they can afford not children having children

I couldn't take a cut in benefits either, but I would also cope with a benefits freeze.

Abolish CTF, and child benefit for anyone on 45k+. It's a total no brainer.