How would you cut spending?

[ninna]

In view of the huge amount of money we have to borrow every month, I would presume that most people would agree that we need to make savings? If you don't agree, it would be interesting to hear why. If you do agree, how do you think we ought to do it?

so you cut benefits and tax credits.........and housing benefit costs will probably soar through the roof!

child trust funds and health in pregnancy grants.

I would make many cuts within the quangos, for eg the research councils are currently amalgamating into joint research council but instead of it saving them money it's costing them more.

I would centralize the nhs so treatments that are available are available either nation-wide or not at all - scrap the postcode lottery. And I would withdraw funding for non-essential treatments such as ivf and cosmetic surgery.

I would overhall the tax credit system, but I would also place limits on that and child benefit and they would only apply to the first three/four children.

oh yes child trust funds, definitely.

Yeah, I know, mj, it's just you said back then it was work or starve... but people were still complaining about single mums living high on the hog. Not entirely sure what my point was TBH

thumbwitch, think we're going to end up doing almost the exact opposite of the work-for-dole thing; all these public sector cuts that are coming are most likely going to affect the low-paid, so we're going to be moving people out of around-minimum-wage jobs, and putting them on benefits. Net saving: slim at best. Social cost: high. Oops.

Your part-time work suggestion is interesting, but relies heavily on the availability of PT work...

and of course many did starve back then when child poverty figures were shockingly higher than they still are.

breakdown of all 2008/2009 spending

It was/is the media who made people think everyone is a potential paedofile, not the goverment.

Ditch these type of jobs:

Divisional Director ? Adult Services Transformation
LONDON BOROUGH OF NEWHAM | Up to £120k

North London local gov
Interim Head of Communications, rate £300 - £450 per day.

interesting to note on that chart that they spent more money on Northern Rock than they did on housing benefit

Cool chart toccatangudge!!

found it a while ago when looking for something for another thread - quite useful to put figures into context when talking about the budgets (imo)

It does put things like the expenses scandal in a financial (though not moral) perspective. At £500m the cost of the House of Commons is (mind bogglingly) large but a drop in the ocean compared to other costs.

I can't get my head around the HMT bank rescue figures - I thought the total cost was £850 billion! On the Chart total HMT number was (only!) £100billion!

Now my head is actually hurting!!

But many thanks - a very useful chart.

This thread is really depressing to read. As Gordon Brown might say: GET REAL.

It seems even highly educated people really have no idea of the shitstorm that is coming just after the election - whoever wins.

The things you want to cut (ID cards etc) add up to absolutely nothing in comparison with the deficit.

Think about things you really really don't want to cut but will be forced to.

"In Australia, one of the political leaders is suggesting that there should be no dole for those able to work under the age of 30. Instead, they should be put to work in the areas where personnel are required. An interesting policy, not sure it would be workable - but it would reduce benefit payments.

"I have a radical proposal that is probably very off beat but here goes - I think that young mums who have babies and go on benefits because they can't afford to work, should be grouped in 4s or 5s and take it in turns to do group babysitting, while the others do part time work. Cuts childcare costs and reduces benefits. Could be interesting setting it up though! I also think they could live in combined accommodation, again 4 or 5 mum & child units to a building (individual units within a communal building type thing) to facilitate the childcare situation. Haven't thought it through completely as you can see but it's an idea."

Thumbwitch, some good ideas. The idea of having to volunteer x hours in the community etc in return for benefits would soon weed out the work shy. It would also benefit the whole country with the labour and what it could achieve.

I'd love to see a complete overhaul in benefits - let it go back to be a short term safety net rather than a lifestyle choice. Higher the personal tax allowance and scrap tax credits - millions of people work min hours now due to tax credits and the state tops their income up - its just wrong.

I'd scrap the surestart grant, HIP grand and CTF - all are just gimmicks and people should financial bear the cost of their own children rather than the state. I'd also limit all child related benefits to just two children.

Scrap ID cards.

Revamp high powered jobs/ office jobs within the NHS etc so that money was spent on more nurses/care etc.

'Instead, they should be put to work in the areas where personnel are required. An interesting policy, not sure it would be workable - but it would reduce benefit payments.'

What it will do is allow employers to cut back on jobs for people as they know they can get work done for free from people on benefits.

Part of the problem is already that so much work is on temp/outsource/outsource overseas.

Increasing this isn't going to help and may cause further job losses.

And because many unemployed are low-skilled, it's those jobs that will be cut so employers can have more free benefits claimants to do the work.

WRT the babysitting idea. HOw's that going to work if/when you're dealing with a parent who has criminal convictions?

I do agree with no extra monies/tax credit/child benefit past 4 kids, though.

my issue with the limits on child related benefits past a certain number is those who have been tootling along ok with 4/5/6 children, and then suddenly find themselves having to claim benefits. It seems harsh to penalise their children beccause other people take the p*ss.

then perhaps limit the benefits in general over the course of a lifetime?

i dunno.

but something has to be done.

and to pensions, too, sadly.

it's not a pleasant prospect, but nor is going the way of Greece.

I think I'd also find a way to make prisoners work. They cost too much.

Prisoners already do work, don't they? In some prisons, at least? Or am I out of date?

Everything will be a drop in the ocean, but every little thing adds up over time.

There are so many silly little savings that could be made. For example the Revenue have now stopped sending out prepaid envelopes for you to send your tax payment to them in. But they still send you pre printed envelopes. Even though you can pay online, by bank tranfer, at a bank branch etc. No need for an envelope at all. However they still send out envelopes constantly, albeit they are not prepaid any more. Why?! If you really have to send a cheque then why not simply stomach the cost of the envelope too...

I chucked about 100 envelopes away at work this week alone, ones to send P11D forms to the Revenue in. They sent those along with an envelope for the payments! But unless it's a Nil P11D(b) you won't fit the forms into the envelope they send you anyhow.
Plus the address on the form is on the wrong side and wont show in the window unless you fold it awkwardly. So you end up using your own envelope anyhow...

Most accountants use pre approved software to print the forms too, so why send a blank form to a client's agent at all? To a client maybe, but not to their agent. And if the agent needs a blank form then surely they should simply be able to print one off the Revenue website!

Most Tax Returns are filed on line now, so why do we need to send people a free envelope to send their Tax Return back in? And a payment envelope...

This is one very small, tiny saving that could be made. But if every department in every area made one small tiny saving it would add up over time.

And when you start on the small tiny every day savings then you can begin to see where the bigger savings are too...

Get rid of EMA, it is not fair giving money to some just because their parents are on a low wage (when in fact they actually get more in benefits sometimes). It also causes grudges between students when they people getting EMA get £100 at Christmas, I feel this is unfair, we get child benefit (which is paid to her account, I don't get it) and that's it. She has tried to get a job while she is at college but there is nothing out there to fit in with her studies.

I feel its like a bribe to get kids to go to college and be off the unemployment statistics to make the Government look better.

My husband works very hard, gets taxed at 40% on his earnings and yet he is paying for EMA for others through his taxes. He is not left with much after paying things like Council tax and his car tax, insurance etc, we also have an older lad at university who we are helping to keep.

I agree about getting rid of EMA. I hadn't known the proper name for it.

Ridiculous. Just an expensive ploy to put off NEET-ism for a couple of years.

Total overhaul of the Tax Credits system. Seems utterly crazy to tax people in one dept then give it back in another (oh and issue 100 forms a year about it)

No tax credits for anyone earning over 40K a year

Abolish Child Trust Funds

Means test Child benefit so that it is on a sliding scale with more going to needier families and less or nothing going to the richest. Why do you need £20 a week when you are on 250K for example?

Merge local councils thereby saving £££s on resources