Could Labour adopt Green policies in response to their growing popularity?

[JustAlice]

There was a phase when Reform's popularity was rising and Labour started adopting some of their promises, like toughening immigration laws etc.
Can they do the same but looking up to Greens now? Haven't they started already, removing 2-child benefits cap?
But, in contrast to Reform, I can't imagine what is actually driving increasein Green's popularity other than pro-muslim vibe/antagonism to Reform, and what's there for Labour to copy. Any suggestions?

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Polanski is no more honest or trustworthy than Farage - they are different generations of the same snake oil salesman. Both are extremely good snake oil salesmen. Both trade in hate, both have made ludicrous promises which are undeliverable (aka they will be paid for by “someone else”).

Its not an accident that both parties are busily throwing out dead cats rather than see their fairy tale policies examined more closely. Both have retained candidates which would not pass the sniff test for either of the other parties.

OTOH if voters en masse vote for them we will get the results the electorate has chosen - five years of shit show.

I wish Labour had been clearer from the outset that there were no easy answers to the mess we were in economically, I wish they had been vaguely competent in managing their comms and messaging and party discipline instead of letting good news be buried under a constant drip of mismessaging. However my biggest disappointment will be if this results in the Green/Reform take over of politics.

What a load of shite.

show me, specifically, the front benchers being made wealthy by any of the policies being put through now?

I will wait.

I can’t see either Reform or the Green Party remaining in power for five years. We had two general elections in the same year in the 70s - we might see it again.

I don't know one single person who wants the return of capital punishment and I know a lot of people ! Where did you get this information from ?

I think either of them would cling on to power for grim death and monetise it in much the same way that Trump has done. They both use the same approach to claiming any challenge as “fake news” or a personal attack. The short term attention economy is much more powerful than it was in previous generations.

I feel very sorry for a lot of the councillors (from any of the main parties) who have worked hard over years to improve their areas within incredibly tight spending parameters but will see their seats going to ranting idiots with no real interest in local people.

They need to stop feeding the rhetoric that immigration is the cause of all our problems - it isn't, and pursuing that line won't fix anything for anyone. They do need to tackle the issues around irregular migration but that alone is not actually going to make any real difference to the lives of ordinary British people, for all that Reform would have you believe.

What would happen if the Greens were elected? I don't actually know tbh but I imagine that total chaos would ensue. I have a strong suspicion that they might realise once in power that most of their policies are wildly unworkable, so I suspect that what we'd actually get would be a version of what Labour is already trying to do. Perhaps with a wealth tax thrown in to make it sound better, and maybe some pro-trans legislation to satisfy their base. I think it would even more chaotic than the current Labour government, less competent (yes, that is possible!) and there would probably be even more in-fighting.

What would happen if Reform were elected? Well, I guess some of the clues can be found in Trump's America. I would expect to see a systematic dismantling of people's rights. The gradual erosion of our democratic institutions. Massive cuts to public services. Very aggressive immigration policies that would deeply divide the nation. The politicisation of the civil service. The privatisation of the NHS. Liz Truss style economic chaos. Isolationist policies. Zero action to tackle climate change. Wide scale corruption without accountability. Billionaires getting richer while the rest of the country suffers.

That is, of course, if Reform can get its act together sufficiently to actually deliver any of its policies. It seems that our local Reform-led council is too shambolic to be able to actually do anything, so we are simply stuck in a state of paralysis without anything moving forward. Oh, I think they did manage to take down a Pride flag somewhere, or something, but that seems to be the extent of their local achievements.

What environmental policies? I’m struggling to remember when I last heard any Green rep talk seriously about environmental policies. Its become the party of choice for those kicked out of Labour for antisemitism.

Its not the first time this has happened - the old Ecology party is the only other political party I’ve ever joined (apart from Labour). I joined when Militant held an iron grip on Labour. Then Kinnock kicked out Militant and they all trooped across to take over the Eco party which subsequently rebranded as Green to align with other European Greens.

Plus ca change eh?

As for the difference between anti semitism and anti Zionism - you might want to explain the difference to Polanski who couldn’t even bring himself to use the words “Jewish” or “Anti semitism” over the recent attacks but did find time to criticise the police for being insufficiently gentle with a murdering knife attacker.

I think there would be major civil unrest in either scenario. It seems highly likely that the Greens would be out of power before the five years were up. I'm not so sure about Farage's lot.. once in power, I don't think he would stop at much to stay there.

I agree that they’d try to hang on. I strongly suspect that matters might be taken out of their hands. I seriously fear the level of civil unrest either would provoke in the event they were in government.

If the Greens don't run out of money, they might as well stay for the whole term.

I think competence would prevent either making a fraction of the changes they pretend are so easy.

Perhaps with a wealth tax thrown in to make it sound better

Taxes which are paid by other people are always popular but this one has never really succeeded where its been tried, its too easy to move your tax base.

maybe some pro-trans legislation to satisfy their base

The Greens are even more divisive than Reform - their whole appeal is based on blaming identity groups for problems rather than addressing economic group issues.
They have deliberately cultivated groups naturally in opposition by sending them differing messages (literally different messages in differing languages to judge by what some of my colleagues have received). Good luck persuading a very conservative religious membership that men are women if they simply say so.

I think it would even more chaotic than the current Labour government, less competent (yes, that is possible!) and there would probably be even more in-fighting

Yes definitely. I heard an interview with John Major last week and one of his more interesting points on majorities and party discipline was that a landslide also provides you with a bunch of MPs who know full well they will be out at the next election and so spend their term promoting themselves and rebelling with an eye on the next job rather than supporting a programme and working through the standard channels for changes. I’ve definitely seen that with some of Labour’s more excitable back benchers.

I agree, the Greens are no longer the party of the environment. They rarely even bother talking about it these days.

I also think the Greens urgently need to tackle the antisemitism issue if they want to be taken seriously as a party fit for government. I wholeheartedly condemn what the Israeli government has been doing in Gaza and Lebanon, but that does not in any way make it even remotely ok to minimise or attempt to justify the horrific antisemitic attacks and abhorrent rhetoric that we are seeing here in the UK and elsewhere. If they pride themselves on being an antiracist movement, then that has to include all types of racism, including racism towards Jews.

Janice Turner’s piece on Polanski was spot on IMO. Of course she was immediately attacked for it, often with a bonus bit of misogyny by the usual culprits on Blueski/X. She did a similar piece analysing Farage a few years ago but I can’t find the link.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/b8e58c61-fab7-4aa7-9206-b00aa76fe810?shareToken=098805bc071a058be2d0cb96af7f5e1e

Hopefully the sharet oken still works.

As someone who is neither Jewish nor has any liking for the current extreme right wing government in Israel I still have no problem identifying blatant antisemitism when I see it, even if the Greens do.

@Contrarymary30 I don’t know any person that wants this but I see it suggested regularly for certain murderers and paedophiles. You must have been cut off from news if you haven’t heard this.

This is such a great post, I agree 100%

Not exactly the same. But have you seen who has given money to Wes Streeting… while on the face of it money may not be directly into his pockets. But I would bet that he owes some favours and has nice job lined up for when he gets voted out.

Don’t know enough about the others. Second Jobs and lobbying needs to stop.

An excellent post.

The Green Party has become the party known for antisemitism recently, and both Starmer and Kemi are at pains to distance themselves from that leading up to the local elections.

So in a way they have reminded the electorate of the benefits of voting for a more traditional party in the boring middle such as Labour or even Conservative. Yes they are a party we are disillusioned with, in both cases. But at least they aren’t associated with racist candidates or policies to the same degree as the Green party or Reform.

Buy to let.

@WaryCrow Being a landlord is a personal choice. It’s not explicitly government policy. Obviously the Greens want more housing but don’t say how. They don’t like housebuilders, so who will build homes then? It’s populist student left wing politics. It’s easy when you have never had responsibility for anything. They want more social housing - but how if you hate house building companies?

Hopefully Labour aren’t quite this stupid!

The much bigger swing was to Reform so would it make more sense for Labour to implement policies which appeal to the voters who have abandoned them for Reform?

I would rather have a party in government who did what they thought was right, rather than what was popular

That would seem more logical to swing in the direction of the party gaining the most wins in these local elections.

Not saying Labour should ever ape Reform but maybe they should consider moving further to the Right to challenge both Conservatives & Reform.

Worked for Tony Blair & “new Labour” back in the day (showing my age).

Yes definitely. I heard an interview with John Major last week and one of his more interesting points on majorities and party discipline was that a landslide also provides you with a bunch of MPs who know full well they will be out at the next election and so spend their term promoting themselves and rebelling with an eye on the next job rather than supporting a programme and working through the standard channels for changes. I’ve definitely seen that with some of Labour’s more excitable back benchers.

I heard that interview too. He came across extremely well. The Greens are loons who speak to often our young people and tell them to blame the rich. What is rich though? Is it their parents or grandparents. Would they refuse any inheirtance that came their way. Give it to people more deserving? Somehow I don’t think so.

The Greens hate house builders. Who is going to build all these new houses?

Reform are likely to be able to form a government based on these results, propped up with the Tories so instead of swerving left maybe they should swerve right.

But KS doesn't really have his party's support. He had to U-turn on PIP cuts, benefits cap and so on.
So every time he gets it right, he doesn't stand a chance.