Why is socialism viewed so negatively in politics and media?

[Vix150]

Why do people not like socialism?

To me it doesn't seem disastrous but it's portrayed in the media as a horrific way for a society to run.

Any thoughts?

Several pages in and we still don’t have agreement on what socialism is. So how can we argue for or against it? What about this definition from Investopedia which compares it with communism?

Socialism and communism are both economic philosophies aiming for greater equality, but differ in scope and implementation. Socialism, often viewed as a transitional stage, allows for limited private property, higher taxes for social services, and pay based on contribution. Communism seeks to abolish all private property, class, and the state, advocating for complete public ownership and distribution based on need.

Conversely, capitalism is defined as an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production (factories, tools etc) and their operation for profit. Central characteristics include capital accumulation, competitive markets, the price system and voluntary exchange with minimal government intervention.

We have what a pp called constrained capitalism here, it doesn’t change from that no matter who is in.

Although there’s a few changes, state dependence is not low.

Countries that are socialist are low in numbers, about five or six and not many are brought up as examples even with the reasoning here.

Did you? I think the Blair period lay the foundations for a lot of what is wrong with the UK now. Decentralisation so that decisions from the top cannot be implemented, quangos, devolution, excess immigration. They inherited an economy in pretty good shape from the Conservatives which is probably why you felt things were better.

No socialism does not provide basic health, educational and welfare needs in the UK. We do have significantly more Conservative governments than Labour ones and I haven't noticed education slipping under the Conservatives or the NHS vanishing. In fact the Conservatives poured even more money into its greedy mouth. And haven't we significantly gone up the world league tables in maths and english for example? In fact it's under Labour that Latin has been withdrawn from schools as well as advanced maths. Basic indeed and non aspirational just so everyone is equal. Perhaps under the Conservatives children could hope for a little more in their schooling.

I’m not sure what you’re expecting from a Labour government as they tend to come in after Conservative ones and have a great deal of policy to change to make a difference. This government picked up the disasters of Brexit, Ukraine, Trump, Truss and more. I’m unsure though, what’s so terrible about it. Crime rates are down, NHS waiting lists are quicker, where mistakes are made there is honesty enough to correct. And most of all, Starmer has done his utmost to stand up to that idiot Trump and not get us dragged into his madness - we will be damaged by Trump of course though. As with the USA’s subprime lending, I expect our economy issues will be blamed on Labour by the right wing media, again! I have lived under many Governments and have a lot of lived experience. We don’t know how lucky we are throughout all of them to be honest. But to read the headlines, or listen to GB News (which I do to avoid my own echo chamber) you’d think we lived in terrible conditions.
It’s the same with those pathetic nostalgia programmes, you’d think we spent the 70’s with no electricity, rioting and watching dead pile up in streets. And don’t get me started on channel 4 and channel 5’s efforts to get us believe the UK is populated by benefit scroungers. In short, labour hasn’t turned the country into utopia, in fact it’s pretty dull, but we’ve be cushioned against the worst effects of capitalism by some shrewd steering. You can have terrible socialism of course, and occasionally fairer capitalism but overall, capitalism fails to drip wealth down and we need a more structured way to bring about a modicum of dignity for us workers. I will say, I travel to Spain and Portugal a lot and cost of living, services and general mood is A LOT nicer - Brexit has messed UK up in many ways.

I think all states have some kind of socialism. Health care, state education, social security payments. Everything where tax is taken from individuals to finance things which society is deemed to need which the individual tax payer may not use is socialism.

I like Benthamism as a principle. Essentially it says that there should be a line at the economic bottom where people can live a reasonable life, and above that political decisions should be made on the basis of what will bring the greatest happiness (I would say good, not happiness) to the greatest number of people. For his time his ideas were revolutionary.

Taxation is not socialism. States have been taxing their citizens for centuries. Most capitalists agree with some level of taxation.

Yes, but in its purest form, does the definition of capitalism allow for taxation?

I agree that some socialist (collective) elements are inevitable in a capitalist society otherwise we are back to feudal times when landowners raised their own armies.

My DH likes to talk about traffic lights - in a purely capitalist society, how would traffic lights work. Would we have privately owned ones?

Yes you must be right. Starmer is a superb PM and the polls are bearing that out. It's a bright future for us all.

Apart from the rising unemployment due to Rachel Reeves' tax policies and Angela R's "rights" regime which is just about to bite. Both of which discriminate against the young and disabled. Cost of living. Farmer suicide due to IHT. Breaking up family business due to IHT. Failure to defend our shores leading to even more illegal immigration. Dicking about trying to ban trail hunting but allowing Russian sanctioned tankers to travel through the Channel. Chagos. Vast increasing debt..jam for large payrises in the public sector (train drivers in particular) and money for the benefits class today impoverishing our children and grandchildren tomorrow. Lifting the 2 child benefits cap. Rising rural crime. Shoplifting epidemic. Failure to deal with the national mass rape scandal. Two tier justice. Jury trials. "Islampohobia" definitions. Thousands of arrests by police for speech crime rather than tackling burglaries. Pathetically going cap in hand to the EU and rolling over to no benefit to the UK's national interest. Messing up the diplomacy with allies by dithering over airbase use. Pissing off our most important ally by poor diplomatic skills meaning Trump is focusing on the UK in particular. Net zero shutting down business. Highest electricity costs in the west. AI firms no longer thinking the UK is worth investing in due to government policies. I could go on but its too depressing.

I don't know and I don't think its relevant. We arent getting pure capitalism. Socialism wasnt invented out of thin air - it drew on various traditions of collective enterprise whether that's taxation, friendly societies etc. Those precursor of socialism are not socialism though. Humans through time have recognised benefits of banding together for the greater good.

If you don't call taking money from people who have no children to fund state schools socialism, taking money from well people to fund A&E socialism, why not?

You might as well have written "mMost capitalists agree with some level of socialism".

I've seen it referred to as "caring capitalism".

It is relevant if you’re claiming it’s not socialism. What else is it?

Agreed. So back to OP’s question about why socialism is viewed negatively - is it more accurate to ask why some aspects of socialism are viewed more negatively than others?

Could I suggest some basic research? As I said taxa tion was around for centuries before the concept of socialism was even being formulated? There is a basic timeline issue here. Socialism is about the means of production. Everyone pitching in to fund a communal good long predates it.

The overall system is still capitalist, very few countries are socialist.

If the state owns 100% of the means of production then that's communism, not socialism.

Socialism in common parlance has always been about fairer sharing of resources. Just because someone didn't come up with the label until after that started doesn't make it not socialism.

Because there are no fixed boundaries and it tends to spread, I think, to a point where people feel what they are being asked to fund is not fair.

When Motability started did anyone believe there would be a million Motability cars on the road and 1 in 5 new car registrations would be Motability?

Where did I say anything about 100%?

My query was more about how taxation and capitalism rub up against one other. Is taxation inherently a socialist idea? As @SharonEllissays, the answer is arguably no since it has existed in fuedal times.

You didn't, so you agree that socialism is part capitalist part socialist.

Which is exactly my point that all capitalist societies are part socialist.

And actually that's not communism. Communism is ultimately about common ownership ('COMMUNism) and the overthrow of the state.

Sorry but this is a really weak argument.

Capitalism existed when the first goods were exchanged for a token instead of directly for other goods, long before the word was ever coined.

Socialism also existed long before the word was invented.

Oh dear, no, that's 'money'. Capitalism is about profit.

I don't think it is.

The difference between what is described as a socialist country and a capitalist country is only on the proportion of the mix between socialism and capitalism.

100% socialism is communism.

If you disagree, please tell me how that statement is incorrect.