A passive Prime Minister who prefers process over politics.

[TeenagersAngst]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-news-agents/id1640878689?i=1000755128315

Quite the listen. A worrying review of Keir Starmer’s approach to being to the top man in the job.

That's made my day. :)

One decision on a foreign matter does not a prime minister make.

We have had no growth in the first month of this year. He said growth would be his priority nearly two years ago. What is he doing about that?

We will defend U.K. interests & help to defend our allies in the region

But HMG appeared to be extremely slow off the mark in doing the above..

To the outside world the UK PM did appear to be dithering, more worried about international law than deploying forces and then thinking through the process whilst they were enroute..

It wasn’t even particularly well handled either the stalling then two days later allowing base use anyway. And slow to send the HMS.

Agree on growth, I’m sure they didn’t think it would stall this long, plus rising unemployment and high youth unemployment.

I’m not sure being a political animal is a good thing. Donald Trump is a political animal. Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Peter Mandelson…

Listen to the podcast. They’re not saying he needs to be like any of those people. They’re saying he doesn’t have political instinct and doesn’t make decisions in the way a prime minister - a leader - should be able to do.

I like him. He does the job as a sensible man not a soundbiteTwitter Queen.

He’s on IG enough selling his wares in any case. Well his SM team are. It’s not going to make many feel as you do about him.

I think experience matures out our minds and hearts when working.

Right now Trump is panicking, as the war not going as planned despite, his boasts. Oil prices are surging thanks to Iran blocking Hormuz Straight. Now he is demanding and threatening that UK, NATO & China must help him . He is desperate for us and others to be drawn into his illegal war, which let's be honest, he didn't start to save Iranian people, but rather to help Israel and distract from scandals at home.

He knows, if we or NATO send ships there and they get attacked, we will end up being drawn into another pointless and bloody conflict, but he doesn't care, as he wants a scapegoat and way out.

I hope Starmer, and NATO, refuse to get involved directly in attacking Iran and maintain their current approach.

I for one, will never forget the scaremongering and lies told over Iraq and bombing of Libya and Syria, which led to humanitarian disaster and refugee crisis for Europe,

I don’t see any wisdom in changing the Prime
Minister right now. We need stability. Starmer is still learning this role. Look at how dull John Howard was in Australia, but how he ultimately brought a period of stability and groth to the country. He didn’t need to give shouty speeches or to bang a particular drum. Starmer needs to be given a full term, then the public can decide at the next election. We are all too impatient these days.

I say all of this, and am not even a fan of Starmer.

I actually think it’s nonsense they anyone has political instincts and can make good decisions without considering the details and process.
The opposite would be a hot head imo, which is pretty much trump, and nothing I desire for the UK.

It really isn't nonsense. It's what distinguishes an average politician from a great politician. Of course details and process are important but that's what junior ministers and civil servants are for.

A PM is like a CEO - they should have a vision and guide those who work under them towards that vision. The reason Labour has seemed so all over the place since they got into power is that Starmer doesn't have a vision.

Not sure why everyone cites Trump as the obvious counter factual to Starmer. There's a lot of potential in between that we could consider.

Classic lawyer - follow the rules with zero thought for what might make the electorate tick. Political instincts at or close to zero. Dreadful orator too. Needs a voice coach.

His process isn’t that great either look at the Mandelson appointment.

And that’s without the lack of economic insight.

Agreed. The last thing we need at the minute anyway is a shuffling of government.

I think people have grown accustomed to the performance PMs that they don't know which way is up and allow their dislike of someone to rule their tongues. FFS the bloke got heat because he was in a shirt with no jacket. The fucker could bring about world peace single handed and the OP would be on here criticising something.

It's a shit job, I wouldn't want to do it and this isn't the time for visions or other shit. Stability comes first before visions. Grow up!

Me too. He’s not “showy” like Boris Johnson or Tony Bliar, he gets on with it. Give me dull and boring any day, and shoo out the clowns who pretend they can work more miracles than Jesus: Johnson, Farage, Trump, Bliar.

Make politics boring again.

What @gamerchick said. People idolise the clownish performance politicians. We need to stop doing this.

It’s not that. He probably gets more thinking he’s ok due to personality (particularly on mn) but it’s the policies that count. Growth, taxes and unemployment rates.

That’s not actually what this thread is about. Nor is it about Trump.

Not sure why a critique of what sort of politician Keir Starmer needs to be so reductive. It is possible to want a more active, strategic PM without assuming that means the only solution is Boris Johnson or Donald Trump.

Clearly Mumsnet is not the place for a nuanced conversation.

Except we don’t have stability because he doesn’t know which direction he’s headed in. Maybe listen to the podcast if you haven’t already. I think you’re spectacularly missing the point.

I agree.

He hasn't gotten everything right and I can't say that I agree with all of his policies. But overall it's certainly more positive than negative.

I'm not a fan of Rachel Reeves and I think sticking with her is part of his problem.

At the moment, dealing with Trump and Iran is a priority and I think he's played it really well. Thanks to Brexit we can't afford to be as bombastic as some of our European counterparts so he's treading a delicate line.

Overall things are heading in the right direction, albeit slower than ideal. Some of the reasons for that are outside his control, but there are other things that I think he could tighten up on, such as trying too hard to please everyone.

When the Conservatives were electing a leader I really hoped that Rory Stewart would win. I'm not a Conservative but he seems like a man who genuinely wants to do the right thing. I think his honesty and refusal to tell outright lies (like Boris' Brexit bus!!) is why he lost. He would have be the perfect PM to have had during COVID with his field experience with Ebola. But Boris was loud and full of bullshit promises - which, let's face it, any idiot could see were nonsense - and that's what the electorate seemed to want. We fell for it in this country and the US fell for it with Trump. It seems inconceivable that people voted for either of these men but here we are.

Someone mentioned Shabana Mahmood as a potential replacement for Starmer. She'd be interesting for sure. But I don't think the time is right to replace Starmer - we need a period of stability, not more turmoil. That's half the reason why we're in this mess. Plus I think Andy Burnham would stand - one way or another - and I think he'd beat her. And Burnham and his giant ego would be even worse for the country.

Why so constantly aggressive and rude OP?

people are trying to engage with you but you’re just berating them in response. Then complaining that you can’t have a ‘nuanced’ conversation

I'm not going to listen to your podcast. You seem unable to see bigger pictures. He's not a performer like the Knobend we had during covid, he doesn't have to show every little thing to be put up for public judgement. We need stability, not a perfect plan right now. Personally I think with his background he'll be good at the walking the little thin thread that's been put at his feet for the minute

I don't shout at clouds and I don't want a change in government happening while all this war shits going on.

The electorate is not behind the UK entering a war in the Middle East. 59% against a week ago.

https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54243-uk-public-opinion-on-the-us-iran-conflict

What he sounds like isn’t important, it’s what he says that matters.