Starmer: Is he really capable?

[JoyintheMorning]

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This is from The Times today. I don't think this is good enough behaviour from a Prime Minister. Do you? He should have been in the Chamber and taken the flack.
Will you still support Labour?

They also aren’t going to elected into government.

What I mean is that there are 3 contenders, 2 are right of centre. If Labour move further to the left and lose their centrists (which the Tories can now position themselves as) Labours vote share will fall.

Right now though I can’t imagine an outright majority for any party.

The Tories will never be viewed as centrists. They’re very right wing atm. Not as right wing as Reform but still very right wing.

Re Chagos, I thought we all agreed by now that colonialism is bad kids?

Starmer seems fine. Not the great big personality leaders we have had recently, but pragmatic and centerist. The alternatives are Nigel and Kemi, who are more extreme.

Can anyone imagine the British people really swinging Left?
Tony Benn was an intellectual and a practical man yet he could not swing enough people to support a Left wing Labour Party that lasted.
Militant was disowned and dissolved What happened to Derek Hatton? Did it last?
Arthur Scargill what did he achieve that lasted?

Ah they say It's different this time. Is it really?

The way the press attacks anything that labour do is insane.

Granted, its not all good but you have to call it out when they're doing alright.

They never seem to mention that borrowing is falling, wages are up, NHS waiting lists are down, military spending is up as are their wages, renters are in a far better place, immigration is massively down, 1000 GP's on their way, tackling child poverty etc.

Quite. And in my book the return of a Sure Start equivalent and the support of the return of youth services and youth clubs warrant my vote.
At last a government who realises that many of the problems in schools and the criminal justice system start early and with poor parenting ... and are prepared to think long term and try and do something about it.
These valuable policies do not make the headlines because they are positive and not negative or scandalous ... but they matter and are what people voted Labour for.

There are a lot of people in the private sector who don’t agree. They’ve alienated many not just through scandals and bad press.

There are a lot of people in the private sector who don’t agree. They’ve alienated many not just through scandals and bad press.
That is because their focus is profit. There are those who are more interested in social measures that improve our communities.

Honestly this government is so bad I don’t know how anyone at this point can seriously with a straight face say they are worse than the tories. I genuinely thought it would just be a bit samey. I generally vote conservative and felt they had lost their way and needed to think about what they were actually for. I didn’t vote because I felt there were no good options. I think Kemi is doing a good job of dragging them back to some common sense.

What I hadn’t anticipated was how utterly awful Labour could be. I would never cast a vote regardless because I’m not tribal and have voted labour in the past. What I see is a lot of delusional takes on how this government are performing from people I would consider to be tribal. Labour seriously risk becoming the third party at the next election. Thats a party thats gone down the pan, this is not a success story.

Are you in the public sector and do you have dc who need a job?

Most are concerned about jobs. Look at graduate jobs and what NI has done in the private sector to jobs generally.

Corbyn achieved a lot though.

The chagosians were chucked off the island they have lived on and we are giving their home to the Mauritians who have never ever owned it and we are trying to give them money to take it. I don’t understand your take in this. Whats anti-colonial about expelling these poor people from their homes and then giving that home away?

You clearly don’t know anything about this.

No no eastern you don’t understand, it’s a social good that we will have more freezing unemployed people.

that borrowing is falling, wages are up, NHS waiting lists are down, military spending is up as are their wages, renters are in a far better place, immigration is massively down, 1000 GP's on their way,

Pravda type lies again. The NHS waiting lists have been fiddled it was reported days ago. Wes has said he was angry about it.
We still have a very small military capability. We could not defend the Falklands again. We are not expanding.
Renters are NOT in a good place because there are fewer houses left to rent. We sold ours. Many many small landlords have sold up over the past 3 years. More are coming on the market look on Rightmove you can tell which houses have been tenanted.
Who is going to pay for these GPs? A Thousand GPs. Never in life.

The Tories don’t have to BE centrist but between Reform and if a Labour further to the left they would SEEM centrist.

When people don’t want to vote reform and aren’t happy with Labour. The Tories will appear in the middle. There aren’t endless options.

As the US shows, elections are often a matter of perception not fact.

(As a lefty what Labour have done to the jobs market is absolutely inexcusable. Making it more expensive to employ people via national insurance, minimum wage and increasing business rates, at a time when all other costs are in increasing is insanity)

But all the people l know who voted Labour will be voting Green next time.

None of them want anything to do with the Conservatives who are not centrist. They are tainted by Reform.

I'd be a bit wary of claiming military spending is up by any meaningful amount until there's actual evidence of equipment and the personnel to use it...

There's already talk of the UK dithering due worries over the affordability of Tempest tri-national flighter project. The other partner nations, especially the Japanese, are not happy.

No way could I vote Tory or Reform. That leaves Labour, Green or LibDems, who might be a home for many - they have over 70 seats and may be a home for many next time around.

That’s very anecdata and might be based on the circles in which you move. Where I live I would imagine the swing would be to the lib dems or Tories. Labour did not win their majority by appealing to the same people as the greens. Voting green will take votes from Labour. It will not do anything at all to impact the right.

I’m a Labour voter and am being purely analytical here. I’m not saying the Tories are centre, I’m talking about how people make decisions and moving further to the left will not be a good move for Labour and away from the left of centre will create a void in people’s minds - even if it’s not a real one.

Having said all that it’s probable that no one party will get a majority.

Hmmmm

Well where l live in a wealthy university educated constituency with a Labour councillor for about 12 years. It’s Nick Cleggs old constituency and the electorate unseated him and brought Labour in as they were pissed off with him sucking up to the Tories. These are the people l mix with. Labour or Green next election. Never the Tories.

So yeah it’s the people l mix with just like you. But it’s a massive constituency.

I vote Labour but live in one of the constituencies which went from longstanding Tory to Lib Dem.

There must be a lot of secret Tories though as I only ever heard one person my age say they voted Tory but most happily said they were voting Lib Dem last time and there were orange posters everywhere whereas were barely any blue posters in previous years.

I can’t imagine it going anymore leftwards. I considered voting Lib Dem to get the Tories out but wanted my vote to be counted for Labour.

I do understand and the people of chagos have been screwed over at every possible opportunity bu UK and US. Brought there as slaves and then forcibly evicted. But there is no way that US is going to give there base up and that is out of UK control. The estimated 10k decendants would be too many for the land carrying capacity if they returned and a nation that small would be at severe risk from others and in dire poverty. Mauritius is where a lot of the residents were moved to.

The rent is a fudge to stop US from hating us, especially with a volatile president, and having to officially invade, as they won't just let it go. It's all a bloody mess with no good outcomes. That doesn't mean we should just decide it is all too complicated and hold on to territory we don't deserve.

Why do we need to give it to Mauritius, on what basis does it deserve the island plus billions?

It’s an important part of our defence and our defence relationship with america, regardless of whether the current president is bat shit or not.

Being less bad than Johnson, Truss et al isn't good enough though, that's such a low bar.

And we aren't talking about a misbehaving MP here, that's an irrelevant comparator. Starmer chose him. Chose him despite Mandelson having been forced to resign twice previously. Chose him despite knowing he was connected to Epstein. He must have known Mandelson's reputation, he was an absolute fool to appoint him.