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Politics

Disentangling Britain from America

202 replies

Samdelila · 20/01/2026 20:20

I know we are reliant on the USA for security and they are a major trading partner, but I would like to know what, if anything, could be done to disentangle us from the USA in the future. Does anybody have any ideas?

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Walkaround · 24/01/2026 11:44

dwordle · 24/01/2026 10:49

I think we should be scared of what is happening right now. This is imperialism at best and fascism at worst. I think fascism is now on the march but the leader of this march is in control of the worlds most powerful military.

This guy seems to know what's he's talking about. A teacher from Sheffield Uni.

That should terrify us because it will impact everyone and there may be little we can do to stop it.

He’s accurately identified what is going on, but has failed to deal with the fact Trump has got Europe by the short and curlies over Ukraine, which Europe can’t defend on its own, so that is effectively lost, revealing our inability to defend ourselves without US or other support. The US is not the only Fascist threat to Europe, nor the only Imperialist threat. Carney’s appeal to the middle powers is a start, at least, but we are caught in a situation where we are threatened in different ways by US power, Chinese power, Russian ambitions, countries which are quite relaxed about a move to Fascism, countries which don’t trust each other enough to work together to defeat the elephant in the room, and the way the global economy works, and I doubt those “middle powers” would rush to send soldiers to Europe to help fight for Ukraine at this time, and Russia won’t negotiate to stop trying to take it by force.

We are reliant on global trade to increase our military power, to feed ourselves, to function at all, basically, and the markets are dominated by the US and its behaviour. How do we get what we need to defend ourselves in a global system that impoverishes us and leads more quickly to inevitable war if we say it as it is? Our wealth, particularly in the UK, is intimately entwined with US fortunes. I’m really not surprised the EU appears to be hoping at the moment that Trump’s America can be stopped democratically, by Americans, before it’s too late, albeit it’s a race against time - he’s working hard to subvert the US democratic system and to create a global snowball effect whereby the world order is irreversibly changed, with or without him in power any more, so that the direction he has set cannot be reversed.

dwordle · 24/01/2026 11:51

I think Europeans are more than capable of defending itself....the problem is that we are not unified.... getting all partners to agree is proving impossible.

Trump on the other hand has virtually limitless power. The republicans have failed on numerous times to curb it.....

Mid-terms are in the autumn, I'm convinced that will be too late to stop what you call the snow ball effect....he's done a lot in less than a year.... nothing to stop this being accelerated rendering democracy powerless to stop it....this is fascisme

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 11:55

dwordle · 24/01/2026 11:51

I think Europeans are more than capable of defending itself....the problem is that we are not unified.... getting all partners to agree is proving impossible.

Trump on the other hand has virtually limitless power. The republicans have failed on numerous times to curb it.....

Mid-terms are in the autumn, I'm convinced that will be too late to stop what you call the snow ball effect....he's done a lot in less than a year.... nothing to stop this being accelerated rendering democracy powerless to stop it....this is fascisme

Edited

If that is actually the case, then the Europe that is capable of defending itself will have to send soldiers to Ukraine to fight it out. Do you think you are ready for conscription, the fall of NATO, and an unpredictable response from the rest of the world to this course of events?

EasternStandard · 24/01/2026 11:59

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 11:55

If that is actually the case, then the Europe that is capable of defending itself will have to send soldiers to Ukraine to fight it out. Do you think you are ready for conscription, the fall of NATO, and an unpredictable response from the rest of the world to this course of events?

Good question. I’d say most are a no, hence ‘coalition of the willing’ is a photo op and press release with a few croissant and coffee meetings and not much more.

dwordle · 24/01/2026 12:04

I'm ex military, I'm too old now to be a reserve. I don't believe we would need to result to a ground invasion. What Europe lacks on the ground it makes up for in air and naval. Russia is no match even for the British navy alone.... Russia would be wiped out within 7 days. Air superiority would be in Europe.....

Factor in that Russia can't sell it's oil, it's economy is smaller than Spain's.....its crippled now....a month at war with Europe it would be finished

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 12:04

Oh, and of course, while Europe is busy fighting for Ukraine, I’m sure Trump will “help” by taking control of Greenland.

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 12:11

And if the EU is unable to come to consensus, that has quite a bit to do with the UK insisting wider, rather than deeper, union, was the way to go, in its attempts to limit the EU to a trading bloc only. It’s hard to come to an agreement when there are strong pro-Russian sympathies within the EU itself. Russia is not friendless.

MissConductUS · 24/01/2026 12:17

explanationplease · 24/01/2026 12:11

They’re doing it for us Pentagon to offer 'more limited' support to US allies in defence strategy shift https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj9r8ezym3ro

Here's a quote from the defense strategy the BBC article is about:

Instead, it says allies, especially Europe, "will take the lead against threats that are less severe for us but more so for them".

Europe has a larger population than the US. Is there a reason why Europe shouldn't lead its defense against local threats (Russia) and expect the US to bear most of the burden?

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 12:21

So, we can’t rely on NATO to stick together, can’t rely on EU countries to agree. How many European countries are needed to trust each other enough to go it alone, against NATO and against EU unity? How predictable would the global response be to that?

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 13:22

And, of course:

  • voting Reform;
  • pretending climate change isn’t going to kill us all anyway if all or most countries in the world stop bothering to do anything about it and instead drill, burn and fight until nowhere is habitable; and
  • blaming immigrants and welfare recipients for all our problems,
is accepting Trump’s view of the world, anyway.
dwordle · 24/01/2026 13:56

My view has always been unless we are willing to defend Europe and it's neighbours then why spend so much on the military. It's pointless having such a large military, and combined it's very large, if we have no will for conflict when it's necessary.

It's why Hitler managed to march through Europe with such ease because collectively we couldn't organise a defensive position. In the end we have to invade costing millions of lives.

If we roll over now and Putin gains territory and all the sanctions are lifted....the next conflict with Russia will be on our doorstep.... Poland, Latvia etc

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 14:38

dwordle · 24/01/2026 13:56

My view has always been unless we are willing to defend Europe and it's neighbours then why spend so much on the military. It's pointless having such a large military, and combined it's very large, if we have no will for conflict when it's necessary.

It's why Hitler managed to march through Europe with such ease because collectively we couldn't organise a defensive position. In the end we have to invade costing millions of lives.

If we roll over now and Putin gains territory and all the sanctions are lifted....the next conflict with Russia will be on our doorstep.... Poland, Latvia etc

I agree that floating around outside Ukraine in the hope of saving NATO is ridiculous at this point in time. If Ukraine must not fall to Russia, then the coalition of the willing has to go into Ukraine and get Russia out.

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 14:39

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 14:38

I agree that floating around outside Ukraine in the hope of saving NATO is ridiculous at this point in time. If Ukraine must not fall to Russia, then the coalition of the willing has to go into Ukraine and get Russia out.

Meanwhile, of course, Trump will say Europe is not in a position to tell him who has sovereignty over Greenland, because it’s too busy fighting a war with Russia.

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 14:42

Then maybe China will invade Taiwan. Better do that before the US has capacity to make all its own silicon chips.

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 14:50

It would be quite easy to disrupt the entire global economy and throw everything into chaos. All that has to be done is for more than just the US to stop playing by any rules.

StandFirm · 24/01/2026 15:14

GeneralPeter · 20/01/2026 20:36

We are, massively.

Nato protects Europe from Russia, and is largely the US.

Trident, our nuclear deterrent, depends on US technology and US-owned missiles.

Our conventional forces are quite patchy, eg we rely on US forces for long-range airlift, satellite surveillance.

What we do have is often reliant on US supply chains, eg our F-35s.

We rely on intelligence-sharing (we punch above our weight here, but still, our capabilities are dwarfed by the US’s).

Edited

All the more important for Europe (including UK) to get their bloody act together.

GeneralPeter · 24/01/2026 15:27

StandFirm · 24/01/2026 15:14

All the more important for Europe (including UK) to get their bloody act together.

Agree. I’m no kind of isolationist (I’m basically pro-US and also a Remainer). But we must act from a position of economic and military strength, not complacent decline.

explanationplease · 24/01/2026 16:24

MissConductUS · 24/01/2026 12:17

Here's a quote from the defense strategy the BBC article is about:

Instead, it says allies, especially Europe, "will take the lead against threats that are less severe for us but more so for them".

Europe has a larger population than the US. Is there a reason why Europe shouldn't lead its defense against local threats (Russia) and expect the US to bear most of the burden?

I think not. They just don’t need to be arses about it (thinking of Trump).

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 16:39

Poor old Russia, being viewed by the US as nothing more than a little local threat to Europe, not a player on the world stage (except where Greenland is concerned, of course, where it is convenient to find it threatening 🤣). At least if there are ever any more direct attacks on the US, terrorist-related or by another country, continent or Empire, Trump has given permission for the rest of the world to sit back and watch, cheer them on or help. Very kind of him, that.

MissConductUS · 24/01/2026 16:54

explanationplease · 24/01/2026 16:24

I think not. They just don’t need to be arses about it (thinking of Trump).

Fair point about Trump.

But American Presidents have been trying to convince Europe to be more militarily self-sufficient since JFK took office, and they have gotten exactly nowhere.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates gave a speech in 2011 to NATO members on the need for more defense spending and preparedness that was about as subtle as a cricket bat to the head. It's worth a read:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/text-of-speech-by-robert-gates-on-the-future-of-nato/

It also elicited nodding, but no actions. Now, Trump, arse that he is, along with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, has managed to change Europe's thinking on the issue.

Text of Speech by Robert Gates on the Future of NATO

From the U.S. Department of Defense:  “Reflections on the status and future of the transatlantic alliance” as delivered by Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates, Brussels, Belgium, Friday, June 10, 2011. Thank you, Mr. Secretary General, Jaap, for that...

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/text-of-speech-by-robert-gates-on-the-future-of-nato/

Walkaround · 24/01/2026 17:06

MissConductUS · 24/01/2026 16:54

Fair point about Trump.

But American Presidents have been trying to convince Europe to be more militarily self-sufficient since JFK took office, and they have gotten exactly nowhere.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates gave a speech in 2011 to NATO members on the need for more defense spending and preparedness that was about as subtle as a cricket bat to the head. It's worth a read:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/text-of-speech-by-robert-gates-on-the-future-of-nato/

It also elicited nodding, but no actions. Now, Trump, arse that he is, along with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, has managed to change Europe's thinking on the issue.

But where does that get us? Even if Trump goes and someone favourable to the idea of NATO takes over, it’s a bit late, now - Europe and the US will never be as close as in the past, because it is patently clear that Trump is not in power because of himself alone, he has plenty of support for his view of a new world order. This means the US is no longer an ally, regardless, because it will always be known by Europe to be untrustworthy. So, better to increase the strength of European armies for possible defence against the US than to do it to help NATO, now that that particular Emperor has been shown to have no clothes.

explanationplease · 24/01/2026 17:14

I do think that you can’t trust a word Trump says. Even his frequent announcements about near agreements on war endings turn out to be spin.

EasternStandard · 24/01/2026 17:14

MissConductUS · 24/01/2026 16:54

Fair point about Trump.

But American Presidents have been trying to convince Europe to be more militarily self-sufficient since JFK took office, and they have gotten exactly nowhere.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates gave a speech in 2011 to NATO members on the need for more defense spending and preparedness that was about as subtle as a cricket bat to the head. It's worth a read:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/text-of-speech-by-robert-gates-on-the-future-of-nato/

It also elicited nodding, but no actions. Now, Trump, arse that he is, along with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, has managed to change Europe's thinking on the issue.

Tbf people don’t choose to pay more unless there’s an actual threat from it and that takes we’ll leave you to it

MsAmerica · 24/01/2026 21:05

MsAmerica · 22/01/2026 01:37

ALL decent countries should pull back from the USA.

Politicians will pull back via treaties and policies.

However, as ordinary people, YOU can pull back by stopping buying/using American products until Trump and his enablers are gone. (There is a mid-term election this year that might help.)

Stop buying American fast-food. Stop using Amazon. Stop using Facebook. If you're using US-based email like Gmail and Outlook, switch to something else. If you own stock in US companies, get rid of it. If you're using American beauty products, switch to something else. You get the idea.

I should have added: And of course you should contact all your elected officials and let them know you think they shouldn't be so spineless. And assure them that you are willing to endure some privation if it will help the country be independent of bullies.