Disentangling Britain from America

[Samdelila]

I know we are reliant on the USA for security and they are a major trading partner, but I would like to know what, if anything, could be done to disentangle us from the USA in the future. Does anybody have any ideas?

He did have cognitive decline? The last debate showed that, it ended his run after the press and Democrats couldn’t hide it anymore.

I have no take. I was just factchecking claims made, and commenting on where such types of claims are also made.

That's all.

Yes, I remember. It does beg the question; why did they install someone known to have declined so much to be the President of one of the largest known western superpowers? And I say 'installed' because if you know someone is, frankly, too sick to hold such a high office (and have access to the nuclear launch codes!), how can anyone trust them to make good and sound decisions?

Are you talking about Biden or Trump? Both fit the description.

I think they realised after he was in and made a big mistake with trying to paper over it.

They knew all that funding had to go to Harris and they were locked in with her as a candidate.

They made the mistake to pretend all was fine and then paid with the election really.

The US came late to both wars. And, certainly didn't win WW2 for us. Churchill (who knew something of the progress of the war ) declared it was the Soviet Army that tore the heart out of the German army.

As an American who closely follows US politics, I can say this is spot-on.

Well put, @EasternStandard .

Historians argue about all this. But what we know for a fact is that the USSR teamed up with Hitler to invade and kill, before Hitler turned on them. Ask the Poles and the Finns.

You have to look at it in a broader context. It's highly unlikely the Allies would have won WWII without the U.S., as American industrial might (especially through Lend-Lease) provided crucial supplies, food, and transport, while its immense military power opened vital second fronts, significantly easing pressure on the exhausted Soviets and British; without U.S. intervention, Germany likely would have forced a negotiated peace after gaining vast territories, or the USSR might have collapsed under immense Axis pressure, leading to a probable Axis victory or a vastly different, Soviet-dominated Europe.

And that's not just my opinion.

https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24107

United States forces played a direct role in defeating Germany, but also forced Hitler to keep huge military forces in Western Europe rather than sending them to reinforce his armies fighting against the Soviet Union, where they would likely have been a decisive factor against the Soviets. Instead, the German invasion of Russia failed after the effort that culminated at Stalingrad, and the German forces in Western Europe were eventually pushed back anyway, beginning with the landings at Normandy.

Jake Tapper's book 'The decline of Joe Biden was a good account of it:

Tapper: I would describe it as unable to come up with the names of top advisers or close friends. I would say look, we're all human. We all forget names. We all lose our train of thought. We all witness that in people who are aging.
We're talking about to the point of you not being able to have a conversation. You are not able to come up with data, information, knowledge, names that you should have at the ready.
When he didn't recognize George Clooney. That is somebody who is not only somebody he'd known for more than 15 years, not only somebody that he had had serious conversations about Darfur with, not only somebody that had raised millions of dollars for him and was co-hosting that very fundraiser. He's also one of the most recognizable people in the world. So, I'm talking about that. I'm talking about what we saw at the debate, that non-functioning, I-cannot-articulate-a-sentence Biden.

https://www.npr.org/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5309451/biden-health-decline-original-sin
Jake Tapper Origional Sin, Joe Biden's decline, it's cover up and his disasterous choice to run again.

Jake Tapper?

That is your source?

I mean I agree that Biden was not fit for a second term but even he would have been better than what we are seeing in the US now.

Do you know if Tapper is doing a book or research on Trump?

Even the Democrats realised he had cognitive decline, it’ll be worse now. It could have been different and it’s bad luck for them but you can’t change his health.

This.
To ‘disentagle’ (why?) Europe would need to up its defence spending from about 3% (other that Germany that does commit about 12%) to at B last 10% thus not having the luxury choice of excessive welfare spending,

The ghastly Jill Biden was propping up the poor old chap.

Why? Because it is not safe for us to be so reliant on America. The values of the US are changing and we are no longer completely aligned.

We might not like it but we will have to face the reality of that choice soon. We need to be able to stand on our own feet and be ready to join Europe in defending ourselves.
We need to increase the size of the military. We make economies at the top by sacking a few Admirals and higher ranks in the other services. That won't save many millions at all but it will show that we are serious.
It will also be necessary to end the Triple Lock for pensions, (sorry Mum) but you will have to rely on just inflation for the next 10 years.
The feckless layabouts of Benefits Street will have to manage on less as well.

Are you ready to spend what @LupaMoonhowlposts on defence rather than welfare?

You could forgive the Democrats for thinking Americans are quite relaxed about having demented old men as their leaders, given Reagan, Biden and Trump. Maybe it’s only OK to be demented if you’re a Republican. 🤣

No - not ready! Not that I’m in receipt of any welfare myself. Just not too happy with the idea of children going hungry, pensioners freezing etc. Which is not to say that I don’t understand that we need to increase spending on defence - and that welfare needs to be reduced. Savings have to be found, but I don’t pretend to know where from.

I steer well clear of politics these days. Both Democrats and Republicans are insane in their own ways imo. I feel the same way about our own politics, ie Labour, Tories, LibDems, Greens. I have no feelings either way, really.

To me, Rupert Lowe appears to be about the only one politician in amongst all the dross who makes the most sense these days. Maybe my standards are too high, but I like it when things make sense with as little noise (misdirection and bs) as possible. I don't live in Great Yarmouth, though, so he doesn't represent me, sadly.

Ie democracy combined with incompetence. The fact is, the Tories faffed around negotiating with China over nuclear then chickened out, they didn’t want to spend money on European options. What an idiotic waste of time. Short-termist governments make cowardly choices.

Housing - stop building housing on flood plains in areas that are water stressed without dealing with urgent infrastructure issues causing a lot of the water stress first or at the very least at the same time - why faff around with HS2, then not even carry through with it when you were clearly past the point of no return if you didn’t want to have wasted money for nothing, when you can’t even provide a reliable, safe water supply and deal with sewage for your population? Businesses can barely operate at all without reliable water supplies (nor can nuclear power stations or data centres).Get your bloody priorities right, ffs, instead of indulging in crass, knee jerk reactions for election purposes. Who will want to invest in a country that can’t even get the basics right? What sense is there in building in areas that are already regularly flooding and uninsurable? Maybe stop pretending we just need to build, build, build and worry about the infrastructure required to sustain the building afterwards?

”Britain is full” - well, yes, when it comes to making it a worthwhile country to invest in, it is too full of unreliable infrastructure and unhealthy people. Unless you can come up with a realistic and well-coordinated way of dealing with poor health and unproductivity, you are not going to attract the “right sort of immigrant,” in any event - that sort do not migrate to a country where they can’t even buy an affordable home with 24/7 mains water that isn’t prone to being subjected to regular natural disasters and is actually fit for habitation. Houses currently being built are exacerbating all the problems that make the country look unattractive, they are not fixing them, they are not making homes affordable, the new homes are shoddily built. What’s more, global capitalism is failing to solve the issues anywhere in the world, because you see the same issues arising in, eg, the US and Australia - unaffordable homes, inadequate infrastructure. That’s what’s enabling all these psychopathic opportunists to creep out of the woodwork - nobody wants to face the long term, they want to pretend there are quick fix, single-issue solutions.

Ie democracy combined with incompetence. The fact is, the Tories faffed around negotiating with China over nuclear then chickened out, they didn’t want to spend money on European options. What an idiotic waste of time. Short-termist governments make cowardly choices.

Housing - stop building housing on flood plains in areas that are water stressed without dealing with urgent infrastructure issues causing a lot of the water stress first or at the very least at the same time - why faff around with HS2, then not even carry through with it when you were clearly past the point of no return if you didn’t want to have wasted money for nothing, when you can’t even provide a reliable, safe water supply and deal with sewage for your population? Businesses can barely operate at all without reliable water supplies (nor can nuclear power stations or data centres).Get your bloody priorities right, ffs, instead of indulging in crass, knee jerk reactions for election purposes. Who will want to invest in a country that can’t even get the basics right? What sense is there in building in areas that are already regularly flooding and uninsurable? Maybe stop pretending we just need to build, build, build and worry about the infrastructure required to sustain the building afterwards?

”Britain is full” - well, yes, when it comes to making it a worthwhile country to invest in, it is too full of unreliable infrastructure and unhealthy people. Unless you can come up with a realistic and well-coordinated way of dealing with poor health and unproductivity, you are not going to attract the “right sort of immigrant,” in any event - that sort do not migrate to a country where they can’t even buy an affordable home with 24/7 mains water that isn’t prone to being subjected to regular natural disasters and is actually fit for habitation. Houses currently being built are exacerbating all the problems that make the country look unattractive, they are not fixing them, they are not making homes affordable, the new homes are shoddily built. What’s more, global capitalism is failing to solve the issues anywhere in the world, because you see the same issues arising in, eg, the US and Australia - unaffordable homes, inadequate infrastructure. That’s what’s enabling all these psychopathic opportunists to creep out of the woodwork - nobody wants to face the long term, they want to pretend there are quick fix, single-issue solutions.

It was all over the news at the time

I think we should be scared of what is happening right now. This is imperialism at best and fascism at worst. I think fascism is now on the march but the leader of this march is in control of the worlds most powerful military.

This guy seems to know what's he's talking about. A teacher from Sheffield Uni.

That should terrify us because it will impact everyone and there may be little we can do to stop it.

I think one main issue is defence. I notice countries are looking to trade more with India and China but they won’t replace the defensive pact which relies on the US.