Rachel Reeves can’t win, can she?

[anothervoter]

After days and days of negative press and chatter about income tax going up, complaints on Mumsnet and across the media, today’s reports are that idea might be dropped and now she’s being accused of rattling the markets and making the cost of borrowing increase.

Honestly, genuine question- what can she do?

Lets park this tax vs investment thing, its pointless, we wont ever agree or even meet in the middle, you re not interested, i did try and say we need both.

National debt went from 65% to 87% by 2020, by 2024, when they left it was near 100%.

Debt is forecast to fall under Labour, so who actually is the disaster?

Agree on the ‘Labour woman’ thing. It’s more excuses.

I just think you are completely wrong. Its not a lack of "interest". Its just really basic economics.

Labour won't lower debt. Gilt rates are rising which is not the best sign...

If it was so obvious, why was RR so surprised?

Because it’s a load of guff. Part of this supposed black hole was the showering of public sector pay awards. (Which the doctors have welcomed with stunningly good grace 🙄)

Yep. And it didn’t require the £70bn hike which has led to more taxes being required, even though it was meant to be a one off.

Yeah apart from they ve dropped back now! basic economics to look over the long term rather than hourly moves.

Do you mean the public sector pay rises that the pervious govt commissioned but never had any plans to fund?
Do you understand how the various public pay bodies work? obviously not.

The Doctors pay deal cost £210m in 2024/25 hardly a huge contribution to a 20 billion black hole.

Try justifying Hunts 11bn per year unfunded cost of his NI cuts ? or the PO scandal payouts, again unfunded by the previous Government, despite the compensation agreed by them.

You re grasping at straws yet again.

Why do you quote such misleading figures?

The cost as estimated by the Nuffield Trust - hardly a right-wing outfit - is £530m to £600m. The higher figure includes pension contributions. That’s the cost of financial years 23/24 and 24!25, i.e. what is payable for the financial year in hand and the retrospective increase.

It’s still nowhere near £20 billion, is it? What would you have preferred? The NHS grinding to a halt? Why did Hunt hand out £10 billion in NI cuts with no means of funding them? That’s half the £20 billion right there. It’s a shame that cut wasn’t axed as a priority last year. No wonder Sunak electioneered on tax rises, he knew fine well what he was leaving behind.

There is nothing wrong with my numbers, you just don't like them because it makes your argument look very hollow.

I mentioned the amount for the year, relevant to the Black Hole you and others keep going on about.

I note you make no mention of the 10s of billions on unfunded costs the Tories left Labour?

I wonder why.

What I always find odd about the ‘black hole’ is that surely before putting together a ‘costed’ manifesto you would have done some quite detailed due diligence on the countries finances.
The NI giveaway wasn’t a state secret was it?!
In any event I think we can all agree that if there was a black hole it is now rather larger.

Duplicate post

No, the NI giveaway wasn’t a secret. The fact that there was no money to pay for it was kept very quiet.

Now £50billion and rising apparently. All making RR look a tiny bit hypocrital......

Wonder if she’ll blame the previous govt again at the budget….but no that would be embarrassing.

She will, won't she! Ha good point. She won't be able to resist. I can just imagine that nasal drone going on about blacks holes again and everyone in the UK laughing (then crying).

Why are you lying?

The deficit is around 20billion, as well you know.

On last weeks episode of BBC Question Time, Ken Clarke said that it would be foolish for any political party to promise there would be no increase in taxes. Anything can happen over a five year period.

What I’ve noticed is that we have allowed social services like the NHS and benefits to become sacred cows that are costing us ever more money with zero improvement in outcomes yet everyone fights tooth and nail to never have them properly reviewed or changed. In fact I would go as far as to say the problem isn’t with governance, it’s with the British public who are.. just of a very low quality. There, I said it.

I also heard this, thought it a bit odd, as almost all manifesto's promise not to raise taxes.
It's what voters want to hear.

The difficulty Labour had was that whilst the Tories knew they'd lose, they also knew tax rises/spending cuts were needed, so they have held Labour to this more than most.

ie Johnson promised no tax increases in 2019, yet look what we got? no big fuss.
There is of course, always ready made excuses wheeled out and accepted when it comes to the 'right.

"As well you know". That comment always makes me laugh.

Look at the latest figures. Estimates of the gap between tax take and expenditure for a start is just under £50 billion. Independent economist also agree. Of course its nearing £50billion. In what world have Labour saved money rather than spaff it up the wall??

You know very what you do.

Best estimates are approx 20billion, its been very well trailed after she rowed back on income tax rises.

Even Reform claim its 25bn.

Its also a 5 year deficit but it suits you to try and make it seem as if its money she has to find right now.

No I don't "know very what I do"

I'm just correcting you. We don't all have to believe Labour's spin and lies. In fact we would be fools if we did.

Politics right now feels like a no-win situation for anyone. People want opposite things at the same time, and every decision gets spun negatively.