Rachel Reeves can’t win, can she?

[anothervoter]

After days and days of negative press and chatter about income tax going up, complaints on Mumsnet and across the media, today’s reports are that idea might be dropped and now she’s being accused of rattling the markets and making the cost of borrowing increase.

Honestly, genuine question- what can she do?

Ok so do you want taxes to go up?

I saw an ex Labour advisor on tv the other day who made an interesting point.

In 1997 , when Blair became PM the economy was steady but public services were poor.

Labour spent lots of money on the NHS, education, policing. Public services were much unproved in the late 90s , early 2000s.

When the 2010 election came and the Tories were in a coalition government , the economy was bad due to the recession but public services were good.

To be fair to Labour , they took over a poisoned chalice in 2024.

I’m getting confused, what does “austerity” mean? Is there a precise definition or does it just mean spending less on services that some people would want?

Also, when we use the word “investment” are we using this strictly or are we eliding it with expenses?

I don’t. She needs to just get on with it instead of all the speculation and shilly shallying.

This is not that labour government. It's pointless talking about what they did last time when it is already possible to judge them by what they are doing now.

What's concerning is that you are probably right- at the moment it seems as though even she doesn't know what will be in the wretched Budget.

You have the impression they might give us a hard time? Based on what? You’re just idling speculating.

Based on the current rules for joining the EU which would require joining the euro and significant budgetary contributions rather than the very advantageous deal the UK previously enjoyed before such as budget rebates.

It would also be fair to say that any attempt to rejoin the EU would be protracted as it is not in the EU's interests to create the precedent that the EU is some club that you can easily just leave and rejoin whenever you fancy.

Covid and PPE wasted a lot of money. But not in the figures to make the mess we are currently in.

The Labour government promised a fully-funded plan that was never going to happen. They’ve already raised taxes and borrowing, they will need to do it again, they are not telling the truth.

Cuts are possible but not doable because the PLP and the unions won’t allow it.

The government need to and will eventually raise taxes for the middle class, because the middle class are the biggest group and earn wages that can be taxed.

Despite what everyone believes the wealthy are a much smaller group and pay a large amount of income tax already.

Of course taxing the middle class more is a smoking gun, because the middle class are their voter base.

People keep saying ‘tax the rich’, but there simply aren’t enough rich people to fund today’s welfare state.

The poor can’t be taxed because they don’t earn enough. So the only group big enough to raise serious money from is the middle class — the millions of people earning £35k–£100k.

That's hardly going to help us. The EU are having a dreadful time of it too.

She's now talking about an exit tax. So if that's not in this Budget it's in her mind. The only logical thing for the wealthy to do now is get out while you can.

We have the most appalling government I can ever remember and I'm no spring chicken.

Refer to @1dayatatime 's reply. I would have written much the same.

She's now talking about an exit tax. So if that's not in this Budget it's in her mind. The only logical thing for the wealthy to do now is get out while you can.

How is an exit tax enforced? If I sell my house and business and have the vendors pay for it into an overseas bank account and I leave the country, how can they seize money from abroad?

The money from asset sales usually passes through solicitors’ client accounts. The tax is deducted at that point just like a charge on a property is currently.

The money from asset sales usually passes through solicitors’ client accounts. The tax is deducted at that point just like a charge on a property is currently.

Thank you for answering my question Blossomtoes.

Well quite. But fairness, practicality and a good outcome has not been a requirement Labour have applied in their taxation policy so far.

That's not entirely true. A solicitor is not responsible for paying tax to HMRC from a client account. They can advise on it but the client is responsible for the payments. (QED Angela Raynor's bit of bother).

If the law changes it can include making the solicitor responsible for collecting the tax. That would obviously be the case if exit tax was introduced.

Wow! How long would this take to go through Parliament and I think the legal system have something to say about this. Wishful thinking!

The government makes law, the legal system enacts it. It would whistle through parliament with the majority the current government has.

@BIossomtoes it wouldn’t ‘whistle through’ anything. Even with a majority, the government can’t magic up a brand new tax collection system and dump it on solicitors as well as
HMRCs long established tax collection system.

Despite the government’s majority, the lengthy parliamentary system has to be implemented.

Budget changes go through immediately. Hence some taxation changes being implemented from midnight on the day they’re announced, eg on booze, tobacco or petrol. No lengthy parliamentary process required. An additional tax collection base could be achieved with appropriate software, no magic required.

@BIossomtoes but what you are talking about, budget changes, are adjustments to already existing systems.

Creating a whole new tax collection system is a structural change and has to go through the lengthy parliamentary process.

But I will let you have it.

How very generous of you. Particularly since you’re wrong.

Ha! No solicitor in their right mind would agree to be responsible for assessing and paying a client's tax. It will always be the responsibility of the client to pay or instruct a solicitor to pay.

@BIossomtoes Not generous — just accurate.
Changing a rate on an existing tax overnight is not the same as creating a new tax-collection regime.

Why is the government not actively working on it now, because it is so difficult to implement. They haven’t ruled it out, but this government can’t/won’t rule anything out.

A budget change can’t turn an entire profession into tax collectors and I am sure solicitors wouldn’t want to become tax collectors.