If Labour raises taxes what will you think?

[functioningagain]

Typing on my phone so not sure I can do a poll? But, if the government raises income tax or NI at the budget, will you think:

A - let’s get real, they had no other choice
B - those duplicitous / inept bastards

If the current rumours are correct, Reeves is going to increase a raft of taxes, including freezing personal allowances yet again. This is the most regressive tax of all, hitting the working poor hardest. She is then going to use the money raised to subsidise people who live on benefits to produce more children they can’t afford.

If this egregiously stupid, self-destructive policy actually happens, it will be political suicide for Labour. They will have demonstrated that they are on the side of skivers and against grafters. They will be obliterated at the next election, and they will deserve to be.

This 100%.

Unless the skivers and people not looking to work become dominant. They can then vote in Labour every time. That and the civil service who need a massive shake up.

The government are expected to pay 111 billion on debt interest this year.
It's absolute madness that they are not cutting things like the welfare bill , foreign aid/immigrants and the triple lock on pensions to try and fix the country and make it worth going to work.
I think more and more people are going to realise they are better off on benefits and quit working.
Labour and Conservatives have very little chance of winning the next election. Reform will get in due to lack of leadership and stupidity rather than great policies

What Welfare would you cut? SEND, PIP, Pensions?

Very few in FT work are better off on benefits, the max you can get is 23k pa (25k in London) & for that you d need to renting, 2 or more young kids with disabilities

FA is already slashed and TL changes just makes pensioners poorer and claim more pension credit.

We pay so much on debt interest because our national debt went from 65% in 2020, to 87% in 2020 (pre pandemic) to almost 100% in 2024.

Who caused that?

Reform will get in because people want easy, pain free solutions and expect change inside 18months.

This is not complex:

Taxation discourages behaviour (eg tobacco tax) whereas as subsidies encourage behaviour (eg heat pumps).

If you increase taxation and increase welfare benefits then don't be surprised when 25% of working age people are economically inactive, productivity of those in work is low, the economy is stagnant and there was a net migration of 275k Brits (and to be able to do so they'll be the wealthier ones).

Exactly in terms of cuts, I see that the Motability scheme for those on PIP has now removed high end BMWs and Mercedes from the scheme, adding further hardships to those suffering from debilitating conditions such as anxiety.

@Yellowshirt

Cutting pensions/triple locks is unlikely to happen. Look what happened when Labour attempted to reduce the winter fuel allowance.

State pension is based in the number of qualifying years some has paid NI (National Insurance) as opposed to the amount they have paid in. Someone who earns £150K per year will pay almost £5K NI per year, but will not receive a larger pension than someone on £37K who pays £400 NI per year.

Welfare bill is too high and will become larger as people begin to think work does not pay more than benefits. So, removing the 2 child benefit cap is foolish.

Immigration is too high and will continue to rise as long as the UK is in the ECHR. There are nine members of the EU that want the ECHR to be reformed so they can decide how many immigrants they shall take as opposed to being told how many they have to take by Brussels.

Labour should rename itself The Benefits Party. “Labour” indeed!

What would happen, hypothetically, if you get a majority of people who demand more and more of taxpayers’ money - nay, even the “wealth” locked in their houses?

No one will work for nothing. No one will bother to buy a house or maintain it if it’s sequestered through punitive council tax.

“Labour” indeed!

Yes a misnomer if ever there was one.

@Alexandra2001

once the two child cap is limited, it will easily be less lucrative to work than to have lots of kids. Unfortunately.

not counted in your benefits vs work calculation is the cost to people of actually working - transport, travel, clothes, time spent looking for bargains that you don’t have, free prescriptions etc etc. It’s now very fine margins as to whether work is really worth it for a lot of people and that’s really bad for us as a society.

@MaturingCheeseball

No one will work for nothing.

They don’t need to work at all if benefits pays more. So, those that do work, but are not better off are effectively working for nothing.

No one will bother to buy a house or maintain it if it’s sequestered through punitive council tax.

Or taken away to pay for care home fees. Whilst those who have never worked will receive care home for free.

You raise a very good point that reminds me of my all time favourite political / economic quote by Alexander Tyler in the late 1700's (apologies as I have quoted it several times on MN and still can't remember the exact date):

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy"

Might be wrong but i understood that to get the better cars, you have to pay the additional amount?
Higher rate mobility allowance is 77 per week, hardly a 5 series BMW, more Ford focus.

Also mobility isn't given for those with anxiety.

Would you deny a former soldier, who did 2 tours in Afghan but now suffers from Anxiety benefits?
PTSD is a form of Anxiety after all.

Because cutting MH benefits will drag in people who you might have considered worthy of our money.

I agree. Also more and more young professionals are leaving the country to move abroad for work. We're really in a downward spiral or "doom loop". My son hopes to qualify as an actuary in a couple of years. He's already researching potential countries to emigrate to! He tells me nearly all the "leavers do's" he goes to at his workplace (one of the UK's biggest insurance firms) are young workers emigrating! It's very worrying just what the country is going to become. We simply can't afford to lose professional workers, businesses, "the rich" etc., and be left with scroungers - who'll pay when the big taxpayers have gone??

Most people on benefits are in work, but aren't paid enough to live on, so the government gives them a top-up. There isn't a neat dividing line between "the employed" and "those on benefits".

I left the UK in 2001 and met many other young Brits living and working abroad. All of us came back to the UK in the end - one stayed for more than ten years but I can't think of a single one who stayed indefinitely. I'd be surprised if more young people are emigrating now, as Brexit has greatly reduced their options to do so.

Trump isn't helping either. I have a relative with a PhD and specialist skills (related to medicine) who has been working in the US for several years. She'll probably have to return to the UK soon, as changes introduced by the Trump government may mean that she won't be able to renew her visa again.

Yes numbers emigrating are in line with trends over the last 15 years or so.

I moved to a couple of countries but back in the UK, my DD went to Australia - now back in the UK and loving her job.

Its hard being abroad as your parents age

Less than half the people in receipt of universal credit are in work.

It should be none. The taxpayer is subsidising employers who don’t pay enough to live on.

@blossomtoes

It should be none. The taxpayer is subsidising employers who don’t pay enough to live on.

So, why doesn’t the government increase the minimum wage? Oh wait, increases in the minimum wage means employers will reduce the number of people them employ to compensate for the increased cost to themselves.

Same happened when Labour increased employers’ NI contributions in the 2024 budget. After unemployment declining from 2015 to Q4 2024, UK now has 5% unemployed for the first time in a decade.

“It should be none. The taxpayer is subsidising employers who don’t pay enough to live on.”

More like housing and energy prices were mismanaged and cost of childcare. If yo fail to build and have the highest energy costs then it’s hardly employers to blame, and especially not when some people choose to work part time and are encouraged to do so.

Or many are on benefits because they're only working part time and wouldn't need to be on benefits if they worked full time!

@Araminta1003

Good point about energy costs.

I work through my own limited company. When working from home, I can claim maximum £6 per week for increased usage of energy and utilities. Barely enough for a 2kw heater for 20 hours per week.

As for part time working, 16 hours per week seems to be a cliff edge. One of my relatives does more than that, but never declares it as it would reduce her entitlement to both child and working tax credits.

Her employer pays her cash in hand for hours over 16 to save on NI.

Agreed on the cliff edges. It's a nightmare if you have any sort of ambition, either on UC or off it. We need a long hard look at the tax system and a way to iron out the distortions.