Reform plans to scrap indefinite leave to remain for migrants

[Twiglets1]

BBC report following Farage's press conference this afternoon:

Reform UK has announced it would abolish the right of migrants to qualify for permanent settlement in the UK after five years, if the party wins the next election.

Under the plans, Reform would abolish the right of migrants to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) - which gives migrants rights and access to benefits - and reapply for new visas with tougher rules.

Reform will also unveil plans to bar anyone other than British citizens from accessing welfare. The party claims their plans would save £234bn over several decades.

Reform said it would replace ILR with visas that force migrants to reapply every five years. That includes hundreds of thousands of migrants currently in the UK.
Applicants would also have to meet certain criteria, including a higher salary threshold and standard of English.

The announcement launches Reform's fresh assault on what they brand the "Boriswave" - 3.8 million people who entered the UK after Brexit under looser rules brought in by Boris Johnson's administration.

Speaking at a press conference, Reform UK leader Nigel Farage said the "main reason" for the policy was to "wake everybody up to the Boris wave".

Hundreds of thousands of these migrants, who have come to the UK since 2021, will soon qualify for permanent residence under the ILR scheme.

Reform said the changes would not apply to EU nationals whose settled status is protected under the European Union Withdrawal Agreement, who make up the majority of benefit claimants by people with ILR.

But EU nationals not benefiting from the provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement will be subject to the new system.

Reform will also introduce a new scheme called Acute Skills Shortage Visas (ASSV) for jobs in crisis. Under the scheme, firms can hire one worker from abroad only if they train one at home.

Reform will also raise the average wait for UK citizenship from six years to seven.

Reform say their policy is designed to bring Britain into line with other countries such as the US and United Arab Emirates (UAE) and save the UK more than £234bn over what it calls the "lifetime of the average migrant".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c930xypxpqpo

Apologies, I read your comment about it being “different” if it was just families with a IRL parent rather than families with a naturalised British one being split up as you saying you found the policy acceptable.

I said the pension system was a problem.

I personally think immigrants and refugees have been used as a very convenient scapegoat for issues within the country. I truly don't think the cost of living, failing NHS, lack of housing, and other issues, are the fault of immigration. I also think that in a society with less economic inequality and functioning public services, there would be less vitriol. People are looking for someone to blame that their lives are shit, and the media tells us it's the fault of immigrants 🤷

Apology accepted.

I do not find it acceptable for Reform to apply the policy retrospectively.

A policy to replace ILR with a 5 year renewable work visa for new people emigrating to the UK might have some merit, but not this. It definitely doesn't seem fair to move the goalposts for people who have already moved to the UK.

This will be a vote winner.
I’m genuinely worried Farage will be the next PM.

I find it frustrating because this is exactly the type of thing we need.

But Farage comes with a helping of far right, US interests that would be disastrous

This in a nutshell.

Some people are falling for it. Other people know exactly what Farage is up to, but support him because they hate immigrants.

First it was asylum seekers. Now it is immigrants who have come here to work and also those who have worked here and are now retired. Farage is gradually widening his net of hate. Who will be caught in it next? Women who need abortions? The disabled? Those in same-sex marriages? We know Farage has issues with all these.

Farage drew a clear line in the sand yesterday. There are no more excuses. If you support him you are happy to support racism, xenophobia and the dehumanisation of other people. Own it.

I think we need to be very clear with people that if they think going after scapegoats as viciously and punitively as possible for no real economic benefit is acceptable, that when the first group of scapegoats runs out there will need to be a new one. And immigrants won’t be an option then.

I think it could be a reasonable change of policy if it only affected non EU migrants coming to the UK in future, so they knew in advance that they wouldn't get ILR only a 5 year work visa that they would keep needing to renew. This would align with what other countries are already doing.

The way it's being proposed to be used retrospectively though is ridiculous and morally wrong in my opinion.

Regardless of how Reform are trying to market this as a ‘Boris Wave’ (and Boris was a horror show of ineptitude and corruption), this is a result of Brexit, which Farage was a key architect of - so this issue is very much of Farage’s making. I’ll post a graph which shows the changes in immigration post-Brexit.

Hopefully this policy will be a huge own goal for them (althoughI have little faith in the media at this point), and Farage will finally be held accountable for his role as an architect and key figurehead of Brexit. There is a horrible irony in all of this, as Farage will still claim his £73k a year EU pension when he turns 63 despite being highly critical of EU frameworks and ensuring that we’re no longer part of the EU.

I REALLY hate the way family life is being completely overlooked in this. It used to be a that spouses could sponsor each other, no questions asked. Then there was a need to make sure the marriage was valid - which was fair. Then it changed to needing minimum sponsoring spouse income. Now it’s telling Britons with long term foreign spouses that the state expects them to divorce.

I am pretty sure my husband’s homeland would expedite my application to stay with him (under their current government, anyway), and the kids are dual nationals anyway so we could probably all stay together. But it’s net losing 4 Britons for 1 ILR spouse: 2 taxpayers and 3 future taxpayers. It makes ZERO economic sense.

It will be people with mental health problems and children with SEN next.

He has already attacked them a few months back.

Bizarre isn’t it?

Indeed. And defended Trump and his anti-vaxxer friend when asked if he supported Trump’s claim that autism is caused by paracetamol.

One wonders whether he’ll be advocating next for vulnerable people to skip their Covid vaccines and inject bleach instead. Equally medically valid as the paracetamol/ autism claim.

The man is a disgrace.

Exactly!

He instigated Brexit and the ensuing xenophobia which meant that the UK became a far less attractive place for highly-skilled immigrants. Numerous economic studies over many years showed that EU immigrants were, on average, net contributors - paying more tax than the average UK citizen, using public services and social housing less, claiming fewer benefits, setting up more businesses creating jobs for others and increasing economic growth, and committing less crime. They generally moved here after completing education and most left before becoming elderly and a burden on the state so a fantastic bonus for the UK and a boost to our tax revenues and growth.

Now, instead, we have to plug gaps in our economy with, on average, less qualified immigrants from countries with lower educational standards, who bring more dependents with them and intend to settle permanently and will therefore become a burden on the state in old age. The non-EU immigrants on average - just as was the case before Brexit - are not net contributors to the UK economy over the period they remain in the country, and use public services more intensively that the average UK resident.

Slow hand clap.

How anybody could look to the idiot who had a large hand in creating this problem to fix it is beyond me. Brexit has also suppressed economic growth and productivity and therefore lowered real-terms salaries so made the UK very unattractive as a destination for highly skilled immigrants from developed countries. Farage’s “economic policies” (and, indeed this immigration policy) would accelerate this economic decline making it even more difficult to attract the highly qualified net-contributor immigrants that we need, especially with an added dose of xenophobia. Why would they want to move here when they can earn more and get a higher quality of life in numerous other countries and not be subjected to racism that makes it very clear they won’t be welcomed? We can’t even stop the exodus of our own highly qualified young people who are seeking a better life abroad let alone attract significant numbers of those from other developed countries.

My hope is that moving the goalposts for those already legally in the country will be unpalatable for most voters, and Farage will lose because his policies are too extreme.

I don't agree with retrospective changes but I'd be pleased if any govt (ideally not reform...) really bloody overhauled migration rules in the UK.

I'd really like to see a system more like Australia with skills lists. Where people need to be sponsored by employers - no job, no visa. an in demand nurse only needs to earn £X through his/her sponsoring employer but a [insert random office job title] who we don't really need more of nerds to earn 1.5x £x.

And no bringing your whole family. Spouse / de facto and kids / step kids only, and only on the provisio that you all have private health insurance and no recourse to benefits until you qualify for ILR.

In Australia you can send your kids to local state schools before you get ILR but you pay (obvs not the true cost per child but a few thousand). I think that's fair.

Ps just checked and I think the fee is apx £3k annually, slightly more for high school

2.7% of universal credit claimants are non-EU migrants (long-term EU immigrants are protected from Farage’s deportation plan by the Brexit agreement, which he hadn’t realised before he made his announcement: what a clown), and the majority of those are working.

So the answer is: it will save an insignificant amount of money and make very little difference at all to the national finances. It will also cost a great deal to implement and therefore likely end up costing more than the rounding error in universal credit that it saves. And will cause a further acceleration of economic decline and service failure due to skills shortages, so likely to be an overall significant net cost of some proportions.

Surely Farage should have done some basic research and provided an economic impact assessment to demonstrate the validity of his policy and support his made up figures he spouted in his announcement, if he was competent? It would be reasonable to expect also that he was at least vaguely aware of how the immigration rules which are in place currently work, and the conditions of the EU exit treaty that is in place as a result of the Brexit for which he campaigned?

How embarrassing to have displayed (yet again) his incompetence and ignorance in such a public manner.

Yes exactly. People are foolish if they think he won't come for things like women's rights and abortion. I'm in a same-sex marriage with a baby with my wife, and it was only last week he said only children from hetero partners grow up in a stable environment. He's an absolute racist, bigoted prick.

He is already coming for workers rights and human rights

I don't think he cares about the workability of the policy though, or whether it would actually result in significant savings for the Treasury. That isn't what this "policy" is about.

Farage knows that the people who vote for him aren't generally the types to engage with the detail or care about facts. The purpose of this "policy" is simply to ramp up the rhetoric about immigration, to promote the idea that immigrants are all just coming to the UK to claim benefits and to underline Reform's reputation as the party that will get rid of as many migrants' rights as possible in favour of "the British people". Oh, and talking repeatedly about the Boris wave will help to keep Mr Johnson in his box, safely out of Farage's way.

Farage knows that he doesn't need to be competent. As long as he keeps whipping up hate, his supporters will vote for him anyway.

Exactly. The sole purpose of this is to throw some meat to the xenophobic flag-wavers.

It’s undeniable that the policies he has proposed to date would cause an economic disaster of epic proportions if ever implemented so the motives of those continuing to support/ defend him are very transparent, and we all know that they have nothing whatsoever to do with economics.

Windrush people had leave to remain. Granted in the sixties to those already here when we slammed the door on new arrivals.

Does Fartage intend to undermine their position?

Yes. Indefinite leave to remain would cease to exist as a status so any of the Windrush now-pensioners who have not become British citizens would be forced to reapply for a new visa every 5 years until they die. If their income ever drops below the threshold he sets - which Reform have stated they are planning to set at £60k per annum - they’ll be deported (so presumably these people will never be able to retire if they want to avoid deportation).

Oh, and he said they will no longer receive state pensions either, regardless of having worked and paid taxes in the UK for decades, because only UK citizens will receive a state pension. And if they become confused in old age and can’t speak coherently enough to pass the language test for the 5 yearly visa renewal the immigration officers will come to drag them out of their homes/ care homes to be deported.