Reform plans to scrap indefinite leave to remain for migrants

[Twiglets1]

BBC report following Farage's press conference this afternoon:

Reform UK has announced it would abolish the right of migrants to qualify for permanent settlement in the UK after five years, if the party wins the next election.

Under the plans, Reform would abolish the right of migrants to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) - which gives migrants rights and access to benefits - and reapply for new visas with tougher rules.

Reform will also unveil plans to bar anyone other than British citizens from accessing welfare. The party claims their plans would save £234bn over several decades.

Reform said it would replace ILR with visas that force migrants to reapply every five years. That includes hundreds of thousands of migrants currently in the UK.
Applicants would also have to meet certain criteria, including a higher salary threshold and standard of English.

The announcement launches Reform's fresh assault on what they brand the "Boriswave" - 3.8 million people who entered the UK after Brexit under looser rules brought in by Boris Johnson's administration.

Speaking at a press conference, Reform UK leader Nigel Farage said the "main reason" for the policy was to "wake everybody up to the Boris wave".

Hundreds of thousands of these migrants, who have come to the UK since 2021, will soon qualify for permanent residence under the ILR scheme.

Reform said the changes would not apply to EU nationals whose settled status is protected under the European Union Withdrawal Agreement, who make up the majority of benefit claimants by people with ILR.

But EU nationals not benefiting from the provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement will be subject to the new system.

Reform will also introduce a new scheme called Acute Skills Shortage Visas (ASSV) for jobs in crisis. Under the scheme, firms can hire one worker from abroad only if they train one at home.

Reform will also raise the average wait for UK citizenship from six years to seven.

Reform say their policy is designed to bring Britain into line with other countries such as the US and United Arab Emirates (UAE) and save the UK more than £234bn over what it calls the "lifetime of the average migrant".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c930xypxpqpo

Communist countries are even more severe. They might not let people in or out.

It’s such an odd gotcha in pp as I can’t think of any country that doesn’t distinguish between citizens and other status in some way.

But surely the discriminated group here is non eu immigrants. The discrimination is by virtue of not being a citizen of the UK/ EU. Every immigrant with a legal right into the country has had to demonstrate their right to live here in a way that natives, obviously, do not. So right at the point of application, using your approach, you are suggesting that the engineered unfairness is a racist endeavour.

Indeed. And that’s precisely why another of their stated targets is the Equality Act 2010: if they were to get into power so that they could remove that as they have stated that they wish to do, as well as removing the ECHR, then all protections of British citizens will also be gone, the gloves will be off and they will be able to make racist and homophobic and sexist and ablest laws…

Yes. That is my suggestion. If you want this kind of discrimination domestically, not on point of entry, then Reform’s motives look suspect to me.

Incidentally I am not sure it is very popular either. Looks like they have a large vote share drop

But many British people aren't white?

Regarding your last paragraph, the subtext about most immigration in the U.K. has always been about brown illegal immigrants. For years, when the topic has got heated people on the right and left of the question will tip a wink at my husband and say, “Oh, it’s not about you, you’ll be fine.”

They are wrong. It IS about him, and therefore about me, and our children, and my extended family. The ratcheting up of the rhetoric is a problem for all of us, whether you came legally 5 years ago from India on a work visa, 20 years ago from Aus on an Ancestry Visa before earning ILR and marrying a Brit, or illegally on a boat. This is the first time I have ever heard ALL immigrants described as scroungers by a political leader through, against all facts and evidence.

There could be a genuine conversation about immigration trade-offs, pros and cons, but as long as the subtext is racism and xenophobia we never really get to it.

I haven't seen a sharp drop anywhere, but I love a poll so if you point me in the direction I'll have a look.

See “substantially” as part of the answer. Legally, the idea of whether a policy might substantially benefit one group racially is something governments cannot yet achieve in the UK. It currently needs justification. IMO it is not clear what that is is you look at my example of two people doing the same job in the UK. It is the total exclusion of benefits and PSE and their recasting as guest workers that tells me of a full intention to remove any domestic recourse those with ILR currently have.

It will come out tomorrow. 5 point drop

Fwiw, I appreciate that we've had this conversation that hasn't tipped into typical MN shittiness. I think we are just seeing this differently.

That’s what I think, that changes should be made to bring us in line with other EU countries. So forget the retrospective nonsense but concentrate on things that could be changed without splitting up families such as longer time frames to get ILR and no access to benefits for non EU migrants that haven’t already been granted ILR.
I wouldn’t expect to be able to access any benefits if I moved to a non EU country until and unless I got citizenship of that country.

It's just your posts are so much longer than everyone else's and so frequent it's hard to have the time to give them the attention they deserve. You obviously give them a lot of your time so I'm sorry I'm not appreciating them enough. Must try harder!

Incidentally, see how Im not reacting negatively to your abuse about my reading ability? Not grassing you up to MN for personal attacks. Let that be a lesson in tolerance to you.

I'm of this opinion too. That whilst has plausible deniability because it doesn't specifically target non-white people, it's a policy dreamt up in order to appeal to xenophobes and racists, who were getting tired of pretending they were only against illegal immigrants. The cruelty of such retrospective action could be considered a bonus appeal. Any cost of the policy is neither here nor there as it's about bringing in voters to get Nigel into power.

There’s a very important right people on ILR do not have that UK citizens do: the right to vote in a general election.
This seems fairly pertinent at the minute..

Where doesn’t distinguish? I don’t think there’s anywhere.

A very relevant point!

Yes that's very important. My parent lived here for 40 years and never had the right to vote. Never chose to apply for UK citizenship (which would have given that right) as wanted to keep the original nationality.

Yes there’s already a difference here. Idk why there are posts on the idea it’s the same for everyone.

Agreed! You’ve be clear in explaining your views. We do see it differently, but it’s been interesting to listen to you.

I hope there are more debates like this myself

At the risk of being pedantic, commonwealth citizens with ILR can vote in the UK.

Ooh nice thanks for the info

What an offensive comment.

Farage isn’t talking about the current 2.7%, he’s talking about the 800,000 who are about to be able to apply for IDL. Many of whom are low skilled and on low wages. They will then be eligible for UC, DLA, PIP and all other benefits.

Yes this the policy and it is why we need to be clear eyed about what the removal of these laws will mean for British citizens.

I mean, Reform don’t offer any guarantee of my current rights as a British citizen. Another point of concern