Reform plans to scrap indefinite leave to remain for migrants

[Twiglets1]

BBC report following Farage's press conference this afternoon:

Reform UK has announced it would abolish the right of migrants to qualify for permanent settlement in the UK after five years, if the party wins the next election.

Under the plans, Reform would abolish the right of migrants to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) - which gives migrants rights and access to benefits - and reapply for new visas with tougher rules.

Reform will also unveil plans to bar anyone other than British citizens from accessing welfare. The party claims their plans would save £234bn over several decades.

Reform said it would replace ILR with visas that force migrants to reapply every five years. That includes hundreds of thousands of migrants currently in the UK.
Applicants would also have to meet certain criteria, including a higher salary threshold and standard of English.

The announcement launches Reform's fresh assault on what they brand the "Boriswave" - 3.8 million people who entered the UK after Brexit under looser rules brought in by Boris Johnson's administration.

Speaking at a press conference, Reform UK leader Nigel Farage said the "main reason" for the policy was to "wake everybody up to the Boris wave".

Hundreds of thousands of these migrants, who have come to the UK since 2021, will soon qualify for permanent residence under the ILR scheme.

Reform said the changes would not apply to EU nationals whose settled status is protected under the European Union Withdrawal Agreement, who make up the majority of benefit claimants by people with ILR.

But EU nationals not benefiting from the provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement will be subject to the new system.

Reform will also introduce a new scheme called Acute Skills Shortage Visas (ASSV) for jobs in crisis. Under the scheme, firms can hire one worker from abroad only if they train one at home.

Reform will also raise the average wait for UK citizenship from six years to seven.

Reform say their policy is designed to bring Britain into line with other countries such as the US and United Arab Emirates (UAE) and save the UK more than £234bn over what it calls the "lifetime of the average migrant".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c930xypxpqpo

I think, in theory, the HoL can effectively grind a bill down with amendments so that there's no time to implement a policy within the term of a government.

One can only hope. Clearly their “core” supporters are the racist/ xenophobic nutters. But many people seem to have been attracted to them more recently simply out of frustration with the Conservatives and Labour with the misguided belief that “they can’t be worse” when they would very clearly be orders of magnitude worse.

The extent of Reform’s extremism is now being openly declared by them in numerous announcements so you’d hope that people who aren’t racists but were considering voting for them at the next election in desperation will start to actually look at their policies, the economic analyses of the impact these would have, the horrific things that they are stating very brazenly and explicitly now that they will do because they’ve been emboldened by opinion polls to be open about their extremism, and that this will deter some people who might have been drawn in by their previous attempts to pretend their agenda is for the benefit of normal people.

It is a fact that Reform’s stated policies would make the very demographic from whom most of their support appears to be drawn (people with average or below average incomes) far, far poorer than they are now and perhaps enough people will realise this now that Reform’s “announcements” have become so clearly extremist. However, this would rely on a majority of the UK electorate caring about facts rather than rhetoric and propaganda; reading independent analysis not just social media; and understanding the most basic things about economics and - as Brexit evidenced - a very significant proportion of the UK electorate sadly do not do any of those things.

There’s another ( now closed) thread on this in AIBU if anyone can link?)
The proposal to stop dual citizenship is so regressive. Previously, as a British citizen, had I decided to become an American citizen, the US would make me give up my British passport. However, the British government would not cease to recognise me as British so if I needed to apply for another (say if I wanted to permanently return to the uk) I could.
In the nightmare scenario the Belgian Farage is floating, should my husband and I decide to use my husbands EU status to get me residence and eventually citizenship in his EU country, I would then have to renounce my Britishness and I could never go home again, for example if my husband died and I wanted to retire to the uk.
I grew up in the 90s when we lived the dream of free movement. All my siblings benefitted, living in various EU countries, learning languages, working, studying. My husband, the same. We were kids from low income families, but curious and bright. We grew up thinking we could be happy and comfortable and welcome in Italy, France, Netherlands, mixing, learning about other cultures, contributing from our own.
I feel so sad that this fascism is on the rise. Like, really upset. And really upset with the BBC and other media, reporting as though it’s a done deal! We need to wake up!

Fairly sure they only have a year. So they could delay but not stop altogether.

not rtft but what’s interesting is so many posters are assuming that this will happen, Reform are nowhere near government (yet) nor should they be in my opinion.

grifters who’ve financially benefitted from sowing seeds of discord and division. Farage won’t be happy until he’s destroyed this country, then he’ll swan off into the sunset with his millions after making us all financially, culturally and socially poorer.

I think its important that people dont think "They couldn't do that" when (if offered the opportunity) they absolutely could.
Take them at their words.

Sure, but there are now loads of people who were disappointed with the post-Brexit Tories and Labour, so they are thinking Reform can’t be any worse. Oh yes they can - and they’re happily telling us how and why!

Reform would just use a lot of parliamentary procedure to whip it through, and retain the nuclear option of the Parliament Act to push it through. This policy will be in their manifesto which will be then elected policy of a government. The House of Lirds cannot permanently frustrate an elected government putting its manifesto in to effect

These are people who are advocating the abandonment of the ECHR, who have openly tried to undermine the rule of law and independence of the judiciary already, who have stated that they will revoke permanent residency rights from people settled legally in the UK for decades, who are advocating the removal of rights for disabled children to attend school…. Etc. If these authoritarians were actually in power there’s not a chance they’d respect British constitutional conventions and allow the House of Lords to block them imposing their extremist policies into law. The British constitution would be ripped up just as readily as international treaties and the rule of law, make no mistake.

People should also not forget that once in power they would not be limited to implementing only what they state in their election manifesto. That will probably be made to appear slightly more mild deliberately to trick people into thinking that they aren’t really as extreme as they’ve now shown us all that they are.

And, as I think you have mentioned previously, it wouldn't all need primary legislation. There are plenty of other levers that could be pulled.

They are nowhere near government BUT Tory MPs are little by little abandoning Tories and going to Reform because the media is pushing Reform for the win so hard. And the Conservatives are in the wilderness politically. So the really viscous, right wing, Brexity Tories will align with Reform, which Reform need as they have no clue how to govern or do anything much really.
It would be a coalition of the rancid.
Just doesn’t bear thinking about, but it has to be stopped because what they want would be fascism in the UK for the first time ever, and we have always stood quite firmly against that.

What do you mean, these people? There are voices across the political spectrum suggesting that the ECHR is tripping up efforts to get on top of illegal migration. Off the top on my head, Jenrick and Brown and Straw

Wow. I hadn’t seen that, I had not realised that was part of the plan. If that’s correct then that’s even more shocking. Just when you think nothing would surprise you anymore!!

Yes some of this needs primary legislation. But a lot of it will also depend on secondary legislation which moves very fast and then even more quickly, the immigration rules, which really are for the government of the day to write to its own ends. People who think there will be a long constitutional battle may be disappointed, Retroactive legislation is also unusual but not impossible.

Most of the fetters on governments are due to the respect on the principle of the rule of law which we’ve built our country on. I don’t know where Reform are on that. Given they don’t like the ECHR, I guess laws they don’t write are suspect and to be ignored or overturned

“These people” refers to the Reform politicians.

@hobbledyhoy

From my perspective, while I agree Reform winning is not a certainty, I am trying to assess how risky a prospect these changes are. I am a citizen, my husband and children are citizens, my father is a citizen, but my mother is not. She is a citizen of two non UK countries and has settled status in the UK under her visa. She does not qualify for citizenship yet. She is retired and does not claim a UK pension and takes no state benefits, and meets the current visa financial test. I don’t think she will meet the Reform financial thresholds as she relies on her private pension for income. I am very worried she will have to leave if Reform win the next election, she won’t be able to qualify as a citizen in time. We will now have to worry for the next 3 years about what the future holds.

And by the way, many sensible European countries have been discussing ways to amend the ECHR and interpretation through case law in order to make it fit for purpose. That would be a sensible suggestion. But that would involve international cooperation rather than an extremist position of removing rights of all residents and citizens due to limited and specific issues that need addressing; a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

Jenrick is also both thick and an extremist and I don’t think it’ll be long before he joins Reform.

And Brown and Straw, are they thick and racist too?

Tbf Farage wasn't an MP at the time of Brexit. He was effectively part of a pressure group and had no political power.

No the responsibility for Brexit was the person who called a referendum with a 50% win cut off.

What worries me is that there is always some implicit thought that it can’t happen in the UK because there are some mysterious group of magic people who would defend principles of the rule of law which underpin liberal democracy. And they would win, somehow, and defeat policies like these or Reform.

That is simply not true. This magic cadre do not exist if you give a large majority to an extreme party. Britain has no written constitution, and it has depended on many conventions to manage its challenges over the centuries. But the idea it’s got some magic cast of people who would save the country from itself after a democratic election is wrong. We aren’t that bloody special, and it’s up to all of us to vote rather than cheese pare ourselves into accepting extreme ideas like this one.

@Upstartled Are they talking about savagely punishing taxpayers and ripping up their lives, and their families’, for the crime of not having been born here? If they are, then yes. If it walks and quacks, it’s a duck. That’s just common sense.

It is absolutely dire. It’s xenophobic, racist, a retrospective removal of rights which would separate many spouses and parents and children and which would also have a catastrophic effect on the UK economy.

You can't amend statute using case law.

Yes, the waddling and wing flapping and quacking are rather clear indicators. It is, frankly, astonishing that some posters are (pretending?) not to understand what Farage is now stating openly and explicitly.

All the parties are now looking at removing ILR though?