Who would you vote for in a general election tomorrow?

[maybegoingcrazy]

If the next GE was tomorrow, who would you vote for? I've been unimpressed at decisions made by Labour since they came in and just don't have much faith in their long term plans. I've never even considered voting Tory, but also don't really see Labour doing much more to improve things for anyone. Will be interesting to see how things are in a few years time when the next GE comes round. Am I missing some really good stuff Labour are implementing?

I'm really worried how much damage Labour will have done by the time the next GE comes round. We seem to be in a situation in which very few people are not on some sort of hand-out. That is unsustainable.

I was already at uni when these fees came in and remember it clearly.

Labour got into office in 1997 and shortly introduced tuition fees. My DB paid £1000 in 1998. Even if the idea was not conceived by Labour, they implemented it. They chose to. Anything else is just fake news.

The Labour Party was in when my dentist went private around 2006, I think it was, it was difficult to get NHS dentistry even then.

Only the fees for the International students are considered when people say how necessary they are - which all goes to the university - but the university sees none of the later cost to the UK.

Given that overseas student fees are £10-40k per year (against a provision cost of, what, half that?) for 1-4 years...so £5k - £20k profit per international student? but 2% of international students apply for asylum at the end of their degree - with asylum seekers being eligible to bring family members across (up to 28 family members have been documented for a single asylum seeker)... so we can expect perrhaps 10-20% of the number of international student numbers as additional asylum seekers. Since each asylum seeker costs on average £100k -£400k (so a family of 5-10 would cost £500k - £4million), it's not really stacking up as an income stream across the whole UK, when you consider the cost as well as the upfront, shiny cash..

... I'm not convinced that anyone knows. Nobody seems to have done any analysis on it, or on whether we should change the international eligibility rules (if for example students on a 1 year language course are more likely to overstay their visa than those on a STEM masters course).

No one cares: certainly not the Universities - who get all the income and none of the cost. But not even the politicians - who are happy to hide the costs, so that the headline domestic student fees can stay low.

I don't see why getting rid of poor degrees which don't improve job prospects and keeping only the high quality degrees would entrench inequality, even if the fees did go up. I'm assuming that loans would increase to reflect the higher cost, and in fact the interest rate could be lower if there are fewer, higher quality degrees - since students would be more likely to get a high paying job and so there would be fewer loan defaults.

In fact it's poorer students who suffer most currently from poor quality degrees which don't improve their employment prospects - since they can't afford the loss, and often don't have good advice to avoid them!

Yup. This is what people seem to forget. Not just dentistry but access to GP's too! Blair stated his new NHS GP Contract would "cure" the GP shortage, so that's evidence that there WAS a shortage and problems getting to see a GP back in the early 00's. I remember difficulties in getting an NHS dentist back in the late 90s when we moved house to a different area. None of this is recent, it goes back decades, and Labour didn't "cure" it despite spunking tens of billions at the NHS.

Re Unis, lots have become degree factories rather than centres of teaching/research excellence. They're also dumbing down degree classifications given the sheer number of people getting First's these days.

My son went to one that was in the "top ten" in the country for his chosen subject, Maths. Over the 3 years he never met any lecturer/professor etc in person, not even his "personal tutor". Yes, he saw them "in person" in lectures, but they were on the stage presenting the lecture. All the seminars, tutorials, etc were run by phd students. Most of the lectures were regurgitated having been written several years earlier by other lecturers.

That kind of thing really isn't the "top quality" education that our young people are paying for.

We'd really be better concentrating on the "in demand" workplace degrees, i.e. STEM etc at the top Unis, and charging more. The "lesser" unis can be converted back to Polytechnics or colleges to provide vocational/professional training courses as they used to do, offering day release/evening/weekend courses to workers etc to study alongside work, where employers would pay for the course fees.

Even if the "top" degree courses cost more, then the students are more likely to be higher earners so more likely to actually repay the course fees via student loan repayments, than all the students who've taken lower quality courses who never earn enough to pay much of their student loan off.

That kind of thing really isn't the "top quality" education that our young people are paying for.

No, it certainly isn’t.

Part of that is lack of political will to face reality and increase fees in line with inflation.

And part of the reason is that students taking loans to do a good degree which leads to a job are - in addition to paying for their own degree - having to subsidise the 40% of student loans which are written off.

Yet more redistribution. Layer upon layer. Again and again and again.

Reform

This
i get the idea of a protest vote
but how you can do this instead I just can’t fathom
vote independent or something!

I would vote Conservative, not Reform.

But you're misunderstanding when you assume that people voting Reform are just making a protest vote, or are being manipulated by mysterious 'silent backers' or are stupid or racist. They're looking for a different way to run the country which they hope will work better - same as all other voters. (How arrogant of you to think you're somehow 'different' and better than other voters!!)

The swing to the Right is a completely predictable reaction to the social problems we're experiencing - which are aggravated by a really difficult global economy - and a complete unwillingness by left wing and centrist parties (including the Conservatives) to address them. Pretending that problems people are experiencing aren't real - and exploiting the 'easy touch' demographic more and more - will push the country to the right.

You can get away with pretty much anything politically when the wider global economy means that people's lives are improving despite your policies. But you can't get away with the gaslighting when people's lives are getting worse. People do notice that.

Exactly that political behaviour resulted in Brexit.
Now, it will result in extreme anti-migration policies.
Eventually, it will result in a collapse of the NHS and Welfare state.

The only solution is for more centrist parties to stop pretending. But I don't know whether the UK voters will let them. (or even Labour's MPs - which makes Labour a lost cause, even if you agree with their worldview)

I think Labour probably have another couple of years to make a noticeable difference. After that, unrest and dissatisfaction will be so high that it will be hard for them to make progress. And we'll have a hard-right government in 4 years.

I don't hold much hope for Labour.

I'm still pinning my hopes on the Conservatives getting their act together within 4 years (possibly less if the government becomes untenable) - but really it's more hope than expectation.

Agree re ‘silent backers’ stuff. Every party has donors, including Labour.

The push for change in migration is from the ground up, and not just here in other countries. Politicians can ignore that or try to squash it but they might find a Reform like party stepping in and gaining ground.

I would agree not all votes are protest votes, I should have taken the time to say that. But it is the protest votes that annoy me, actually consider properly what you are doing with your protest!
Those voting for reform as they are desperate for change I feel concerned for. Their lives are going to be made considerably worse under reform, as we can see happening in the US. Reform lies and populist spin. Their concerns do need to be heard. I don't vote Labour and they have spectacularly messed up in many ways, but somehow some of the genuine things they have planned which will help the poorest in society are being drowned out by populist bullshit. It's crazy

There’s no decent choice and that’s a massive problem. I can’t bear Labour but I think that’s because Starmer is a dreadful Prime minister and he hasn’t got

There’s no decent choice and that’s a massive problem. I can’t bear Labour but I think that’s because Starmer is a dreadful Prime minister and he hasn’t got the right people around him.

Labour is the tactical vote in my very Tory constituency but I think I’d go Greens next time around (not a fan of Starmer & Co.!).

Would also consider voting for Jeremy Corbyn & Zarah Sultana’s party if it’s up and running by the next GE 🙂

I didn’t vote Reform last GE, as they were too new and lacking members with experience. However having watched Labour make such a spectacular cluster phuck of everything so far, I would probably vote Reform if there was a GE tomorrow.

Lib Dem because my MP is awesome. The first non-Tory in the seat and a vast improvement on the last pocket-lining, snout-in-the-trough, arrogant waste of skin.

In Scotland.
Never Reform. Never Tory. Labour are basically Tory these days, so nope. Lib Dem’s are non entities. Greens are a shit show. So SNP it is. If I CBA to vote at all..

Apprenticeships.

I am 35, and I’ve been to university (3 times in fact) totalling 5 years of study, but it’s led me to a specific job in healthcare.

However, if I was 17-18 now, I would do an apprenticeship. No debt, on the job training and work experience, and get to earn some money straight away (albeit a bit rubbish). I’d also train in an area where there are lots of jobs - so a bit of a skills gap in the country.

Keir Starmer should just be sacked after his latest comments about housing.
Labour are an absolute shambles

Reform. Just to ensure Labour are turfed out. I don’t think voting any other will do that.

Labour will have made such a shitty messy by the time the next GE is here. Loads of debt, immigrants and failed businesses imo.

Conservative/Reform coalition