U-turn on PIP reforms - 4 point rule will only apply to new claims

[IShouldNotCoco]

https://news.sky.com/story/government-to-make-concessions-to-labour-rebels-over-welfare-reforms-sky-news-understands-13388797

Oh, thank goodness. Thanks, OP. I think the benefits system still needs a lot more detailed work but this removes the spectre of sudden impoverishment for people with disabilities while the govt, one hopes, sorts out a better plan.

It's so irritating that all commentators still think PIP's an out-of-work benefit. I know most recipients don't work - that's why they want to integrate it more fully with UC - but it would have been incredibly stupid to remove the support enabling those who do.

Have I misunderstood, because I think that’s an insane decision. It makes no logical sense at all. Just because someone applies for PIP later it doesn’t mean their needs are less than someone already on it. They’ve accepted the premise that people already on PIP shouldn’t have the rules changed for them so where is the logic that someone who may have exactly the same disability (and the same PIP points) in a few years time should get less support?
And if they think they can justify a new claimant with a set amount of PIP points not getting support, where is their logic in continuing to spend money on others with those same PIP points?
PIP should be done on need, not on when you apply for it.

That's not a change that's what was happening anyway ffs

Yes. That's transitional protection. It's how welfare reform usually works.
It's not a concession at all. It's what was going to happen anyway.

I'm still unhappy about it.

We were never going to be affected, as the tribunal offered over 4 points in a couple of descriptors aswell as an indefinite award.

But before the tribunal we would have been.

I know a lady that has a son with down syndrome. If he was applying under this new rule, he would not be awarded PIP. She would not be awarded carers. And then the government would have to fork out thousands per month for his care as she is barely hanging on with the pittance that is care allowance anyway, and he cannot be left unsupervised.

It is short sighted, cruel and I will NEVER forgive labour for this.

My son is on dla and turns 16 during may 2016 but I know they don’t always change them over straight away as you have to wait for the pip forms to be sent out and then processed so he could be under new or old system depending on how long they take to process his form. He’s in special school, has ehcp and currently receives middle rate care dla. He should easily qualify but I’m worried he won’t under new system. There is such a fine line between promoting 2 points and supervision 4 points which would make the difference if you got awarded or not. He does cooking at his special school or at home so can cook but he has me or the staff there to help him, provide all the ingredients eg. is this prompting or is this assistance. Someone born a year earlier with potentially lower needs than him may get pip forever but he might not if he’s under new system. I’d love him to be able to work and get a job it’s not that at all, it would be my ultimate dream for him as I’m worried he’s going to be stuck at home doing nothing but at the minute I can’t see he’d be capable of work. It’s not just the pip money it’s used as evidence to access things, like for example we go to an Sen swim session, we won’t be able to access this anymore if he isn’t awarded pip and loads of other stuff like that

They wouldn’t fork out thousands a month for his care though they’d probably say he doesn’t qualify as he isn’t in receipt of pip so his care needs aren’t high enough. That’s the danger, then what do you do leave them unsupervised and take a risk (who is at fault there when it’s an adult child?), pick up the tab yourself (unaffordable for most) or give up work to supervise full time, and potentially also burn yourself out from no breaks

So is it thst existing claimants only het under old rules till their renewal? I read it that existing claimants would still be under old rules at renewal so essentially if on pip already you’d always be under old rules , where as new claimants would be under new rules

No, I think existing claimants were going to be under the new “needing 4 points in at least one section” rule from their next assessment. The change is that now they won’t be. They will remain under the current system. I think.

It is absolutely ridiculous and totally unfair. Labour at its very best bonkers decision making. They are not getting my vote again. Furious. Still it was to be expected. The lefties win against common sense and fairness which have never been words in their vocabulary.

Oh what a surprise more of 2 tier Kier! I am very thankful that my DD turns 16 in October, despite the fact she should easily get 4 points in several parts of the assessment. I'm unsure how this would be legal if someone challenged it in the courts though...

I couldn't agree more - and it's just going to create yet another generational gap over time, which I really think is the last thing we need as a society.

Yes, this is how I read it too.

So, as it stands now, those currently in receipt of PIP will be assessed under the current system. Including renewal etc even after November 2026.

From November 2026, new claims will be based on the 4 point system.

I haven't quite worked out what is happening with LCWR (I can't even remember what it's called!)

She may not be under old system if she turns 16 in the October, my son turns 16 earlier in year but I know from others who have had kids turn 16 already it doesn’t change over to,pip from dla straight away on 16th birthday it’s several months after. Mine should also get 4 points in some sections but it depends on how the apply the diff between prompting and supervision.

I can't see the sense in it - the new claims aspect.

I wonder what the percentage of mandatory reconsideration will be, it's already very high and usually successful.

It's going to cost more than it will save.

Bloody shambles.

This will keep two systems for a very long time. A similar cliff edge as well.

I expect a lot of existing clients to be reassessed as not getting 8 points at all so PIP ends. So many people don’t appeal. They claim again later when they may be in a better place mentally or physically and now will come under new rules.

we need to look out for whether the law tries to say that new rules apply for existing clients who lose daily living but keep mobility component and don’t appeal. Shouldn’t happen and would be challenged immediately.

If anything it will make things worse for people who are under the new system. Not for the money but becuase pip is used to assess eligibility for other stuff. So will end up not being to access stuff due to not being receipt of pip but the criteria won’t be relaxed for access as many people in same situation still on pip, so pip still the benchmark of measuring how disabled a person is for other support/access. So two equal people the one under old system would be considered as more disabled and be able to access Sen sessions etc but one under new system can’t

Exactly. The original plan, controversial as it was, wasn’t even about saving money. It was about the cost going up by a bit less.

Now the unequal mess they have created will cost even more and still upset thousands. Total two tier shambles.

@Morph22010useful information - thanks! She's non verbal and is severely autistic so I think in the communication section alone she will qualify easily even on the new system.

I wondered the same - is this not blatant discrimination?

So the people going on about Two Tier are presumably going to vote Reform who will slash Welfare even though they're on this thread complaining about Welfare being slashed?

Just. So. Weak.

What an embarrassment.

You should 100% be getting then under new or old system which is as it should be. Mines autistic also but verbal and can come across as very articulate to people who don’t know him well, but he’s autistic enough to be in special school at the minute. We can leave him for a short time if we are nearby and can get back if he calls but we can’t leave him for extended period or go somewhere that would take longer than about 5 mins to get back. Strictly he should get 4 points in several categories but depends how they apply the diff between prompting and supervision. I guess I will just have to appeal if he doesn’t get.

I think the LWCRA difference is that the element will rise with inflation in line with all benefits as before was not going to so gradually reduce in value. Still using the PIP award though. Which is stupid. Yes there is a lot of crossover, but I not for LCW.
see section
lots of people can’t work but not long term so no PIP. so maybe under UC can do activities to improve their health. If linked to PIP now in all work related requirements group.

Yep, the Tories were shit, Labour are proving to be probably even more shit so may as well try someone else next time