Afraid for US

[LunaTheCat]

I have been watching US politics and thinking about events in LA.
What terrifies me is the complicity of ordinary people.
I can get over a narcissistic, sociopathic leader but ordinary citizens… in the military, ICE are complicit . It reminds me so much rise of facism in 1930’s Germany…Hitler could not done what he did without ordinary Germans… feels like we are going there again.

Sorry but this has been done to death already. Everyone is concerned.

didn’t mean to endlessly repeat “overtheatlantic” .. I guess from your user name you are in US. ..

As a Brit in the USA I’m actually more surprised at how much tolerance there is for illegal immigrants in the USA.
I actually think that the UK has much lower tolerance.
That said I think Trump is trying to provoke the annoyance that does exist and turn it to his own advantage.

What complicity of ordinary people?

To be honest I was amazed at the protesters - someone on the news was complaining that her dad was deported after living in the US illegally for ten years and he missed her birthday. A protester had a sign saying no-one’s illegal on stolen land. I can appreciate both sentiments but surely people understand that countries have borders and immigration rules? It’s not fair, it’s a lottery where you’re born, and yes if you go back to settlers times the occupation of Native American land and elsewhere was abhorrent, but it’s not feasible to just remove all borders on all countries - who’s going to pay taxes where? Who’s going to pay for teachers, police, roads, healthcare etc?
His language is abhorrent I agree, but I think a lot of his actions are half arsed - for now at least.
I agree it’s still a worry it starts off semi-acceptable then spreads, but he’s already losing so much support I’m not sure he could be the next Hitler…

Done to death?
Get used to it because this situation is not going away any time soon and the reason we should all care about what unfolds in the US is that it's an international movement, a true globalist movement (oh the irony, right?) that seeks to export this authoritarian model to countries across the West. We're first in their line of sight.
In an interview with the BBC, Steve Bannon (still very much an influence in the MAGA world) was saying verbatim that 'you guys in the UK should do the same' when talking about rounding up immigrants without due process and deploying the army.
It's bad. And it's our fight as much as it is the Americans'.

Yes, the US has always been more tolerant of undocumented workers especially in the farming and construction sectors. The issue here is the rounding up without due process. The fact that Trump aims at deporting 11 million people is clashing with the capabilities available to process the cases properly. His choice is therefore 'sod it then, who cares about rights'. That's what absolutely needs to be fought against. It's such a slippery slope because it sets precedents for a state that does not abide by rule of law and replaces it with arbitrary decisions from shady unaccountable organisations that no one can challenge (in the name of 'getting shit done'). I see the same slippery intentions here whenever Tories or Reform talk about leaving the ECHR. It's to be able to do away with due process. It's a practical yet EXTREMELY dangerous decision. So, the question is do you hate undocumented migrants so much that you're willing to get rid of your own rights as a citizen? I'd argue many Americans emphatically do not want that.

"do you hate undocumented migrants so much that you're willing to get rid of your own rights as a citizen", this is the crux of the problem, American culture has been swallowed by consumerism and the resulting need for instant gratification, this combined with the pervasiveness of mass media on national identity results in a complete absence of civic duty and commitment to democratic principles. All of the above are destroying the notion of the free thinking agent, who would be able to recognise how self destructive these policies are.

I also saw it on the news last night. People were being interviewed and basically saying they are illegal immigrants but so what?!?!

I had no idea illegal immigration was so common place in the US. Surely if you're doing something illegal you can expect to pay the consequences ? Mind you the US has no kind of welfare state so maybe that's why. It is literally every one for themselves.

I'm in the UK and I can't imagine that sort of attitude getting much support here.

OP, how are ordinary people being complicit in fascism? The people they want to expel are illegal immigrants who have broken the law being there.
In 1930s Germany Jews were not there illegally. They were German citizens so it's not at all comparable.

Op is quite correct - ordinary people will behave in an appalling way give instruction from their superiors

its well known

the USA tried to supress the research into this back in the day?1960s because they didn’t like to think their citizens would have taken part in the holocaust

Like many, I have family and friends in America. They are scared and I'm worried about them as Trump turns the Land of the Free into a facist state.

If you entered a country illegally, do you think it's your right to stay in that country and not get deported?

This isn't just about those in the country illegally and many Americans are waking up to that now.

The "illegals" that Trump is going after aren't undocumented. They have jobs, houses, families. They pay their taxes. Their children are American citizens. Some aren't there illegally at all. They're now afraid to go to work or school incase they're seized, imprisoned or sent to other countries all without any due process.

America has become a country where masked men can take you off the street, bundle you into a car and send you god knows where.

That's terrifying!

Please can you explain how some US illegal immigrants are there illegally at all because I really don't understand this now.

Since it's inception the USA has allowed people to overstay visas or just accepted them. They've been permitted to work, buy property, start businesses, pay taxes and have children who then have Birthright citizenship.

Its not like the UK.

Here's one example. There are millions more just like Carol, most from Latin America.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/28/us/missouri-immigrant-trump.html

So it's a case of it's been happening so it must be the 'law'- a bit like trans people in the UK having the impression that the equality act didn't refer to actual sex (despite anyone with half a brain knowing it did).

So they are still there illegally.

How would you pay tax without a social security number or ITIN or some kind of ID number. I sometimes have to pay US tax and I still have to put in lots of ID numbers for it to work?

I'm sorry I can't read that. All I can see is someone called Carol has lived in the US for 20 years and is now in prison

What? It's nothing remotely like trans people in the UK.🤯

Firstly the USA was built by immigrants. It has a culture of immigrants and has done for 100s of years.

Secondly the "illegals" are able to work because they were given a SS Number by the state.

Thirdly, they know they are "illegal". They have to attend routine immigration appointments with immigration officials who know them, know where they live, know where they work and know they are there illegally. They do it for years and even decades.

I know there are some on Mnet who feel the need to shoehorn trans into every discussion🙄 but your comparison is an impossible stretch and totally incorrect.

If you click on "Show full article" it should show the whole thing.

From what I understand, Trump won certain states purely on the vote of the Latino community. Now they're complaining about what they voted for. People were warned that he'd put the military on the streets and there wasn't capacity for due process but mass deportation was a vote winner.

Obviously I didn't mean they were literally like trans people FFS.

I meant (as I'm sure you realise) that just because people are doing something and maybe some apparently 'in the know' re: the law sanction it, then it doesn't meant it is legally correct. I used the example of Trans people and 'Stonewall law' as it's a contemporary example and I honestly can't think of any other examples where people have been so wilfully mislead re: the law.

I'll make the comparison clearer for you:

US immigration (according to you) - come to a routine meeting and it's okay for you to stay here illegally.

Stonewall - the equality act refers to gender so act accordingly.

Both stances are wrong in the eyes of the law in their respective countries and have done nothing more than misguide.

You say Firstly the USA was built by immigrants. It has a culture of immigrants and has done for 100s of years.

That means nothing if you are there illegally.

Though there is a certain level of tolerance/turning a blind eye, deporting illegal immigrants is not
new. The Obama administration deported over 3 million of them and ended the wet feet, dry feet policy, deporting even more than George W Bush who deported approximately 2 million. The way that Trump is doing it may be more extreme(As is just about everything that man does) but it’s certainly not unprecedented.

Also I would not advise deliberately overstaying your visa. That can get you into a lot of trouble, as it did a friend of mine, years before Trump.

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