Military gap years?

[YourFairViewer]

What does everyone think of military gap years from this week's news? https://theconversation.com/uk-looks-to-military-gap-years-to-boost-recruitment-in-the-face-of-growing-geopolitical-tension-258207?utm_medium=article_clipboard_share&utm_source=theconversation.com

My brother is in the army and he really hates the idea of 'national service', he said it's hard enough to train recruits that actively want to be there. Reading the article, it looks like this could be a bit different (an optional gap year), so perhaps it could be ok, but he worries that any scheme like this ends up being a babysitting exercise.

Agree with @NannyOgg1341 ...

Those that wanted a taster of service life used to be able to join cadets, various if at school or if at Uni OTC, the Universiry Air Squadron etc.

I know some of those still remain but these days probably less well funded and not as politically acceptable to many.

Improving HM Forces T&Cs and standard of accomodation and advertising the fact would probably do more for recruiting than gap years, but it would cost...

Ahhh....

Probably a good idea if we are heading for war. At least a few more people to know what to do if the worst happens. They have national service in a lot of European countries so it's not a completely outlandish suggestion. And also there are a lot fewer jobs for young people around now so it might give them some useful skills for later. I say this with two boys at or coming up to the relevant age for this.

Probably a good idea if we are heading for war. At least a few more people to know what to do if the worst happens.

The problem as I"ve heard it expressed over the years is that, one or two roles aside, you can't teach much that is worthwhile in a year.

If you make it a two year "gap" with some sort of reserve obligation with a recurrent training commitment thrown in for x years afterwards then it might be cost effective

If however the idea of this gap year proposal is to give people a short taster of multiple aspects of the military, with them hopping around from base to base they won't really learn anything and will be a drain on resouces.

As a result of that thinking a lot of national service around the world, certainly in Europe these days, is non-military,

My nephew is doing his national service next year. He's going into search and rescue in an airforce base.

Dds boyfriend has done the 2 year army apprenticeship scheme ( instead of A levels). That has been hard and it's only at the 2 year point that it's started coming together.

That's a great thing to do, some individuals do similar where I am (not UK)..

For them it's generally a year of initially at least fairly none-technical.stuff, e.g. helping those in charge run operations desks, general gophering around the unit, and (for those.maybe out on foot on exercise or helping with on foot searches when person power is needed...all good stuff, valuable life experience...

My son does air cadets and loves it. It's been the making of him. He's been able to do all sorts of activities, and been encouraged to try things outside his comfort zone.

He's a very bright, academic child and he's been encouraged to explore so many different experiences through Air Cadets. It's also taught him more independence.

I was actually really wary when his dad signed him up for it but I have been pleasantly surprised.

They have been far better than our local scouts.
Scouts UK had lots of brilliant policies but the local scout leaders thought they didn't apply to them, and excluded him time and again from activities because of his allergies or put him in danger.

Glad to hear that and fingers crossed he continues to enjoy it.

I know there's been a major grumble going on about the amount of flying/gliding Air Cadets are getting, or rather not getting (reasons...lots of, but mainly money) but hopefully it's a problem that is being sorted out.

I'm fully supportive of the GI bill concept in the US where if you voluntarily complete two years of military service then your university fees or equivalent funds for an apprenticeship or other training is paid for by the state.

You would need to make it voluntary and have a limited number of places (eg10 or 20k pa) to create competition and ensure that only those that really wanted to do it got a place.

These are really popular in my country with massively more applicants than places. A lot go back after their degree or join the reservists. I think it's a great idea because it lets you try before you buy as such. I think most applicants would already be considering a military career but are put off by having to sign up for a significant length of time at a young age when most of their peers are off to university. I did a year in industry before my degree and would almost certainly have applied for this if it had been available 20 years ago.

@Paaseitjes

These are really popular in my country with massively more applicants than places

Interesting - what's the minimum length of time people do on these "look sees?" and roughly how many applicants get a place?

The problem with massive numbers and short term commitment is (aside from cost) people can end up parked in low level make work posts for a year...

I saw and worked with a handful of European air forces during their conscription era and it wasn't unusual to see concripts doing things like pushing a broom in the hangar or running squadron coffee bars..

The officer corp were quite open about the logic -behind it - conscripts only served a year,.so no point in even beginning to train them in anything technical.

@notimagain

"Interesting - what's the minimum length of time people do on these "look sees?" and roughly how many applicants get a place?

The problem with massive numbers and short term commitment is (aside from cost) people can end up parked in low level make work posts for a year.."

To create anything useful you would need a two year term. One year in training and another year doing something that would free up a full time person.

I agree that with the current size of the UK military that it would not be possible to have large numbers- maybe 10k pa and it would need to be voluntary and selective.

I think it's 2 years. It was set up as a trial with 10s of places, but has been so successful they're expanding. I'm in NL, so we don't have a large corp of squaddies anyway. Most military roles are technical or desk. It's partly attractive because high house prices & rents make it very difficult to move out even as students.

I've got several Swiss and Austrian friends who did military service then stuck around as reservists doing peacekeeping mission in their summer holidays. They ended up doing defence related phds and now work in defence r&d. Their on the ground experience make them particularly valuable both as engineers but also for customer relations.

He isn't getting heaps, but he's actually enjoying so many of the other experiences they offer too. I think they managed his expectations really well. But he's done expeditions, shooting, a day of training at NATS using their air traffic control simulator, flight simulators, rock climbing.. I think it terms of an all round experience it's been great, but yes if you went in thinking you would be in the air once a month you'd be disappointed.

@1dayatatime @Paaseitjes

Thanks, Very much agree, for any scheme to be worth doing from a forces POV you're looking at 2 years..and it really cannot become a baby sitting service for thousands,.numbers have to.be capped.

Ah the flying & the Air Cadets. Our unit (hubs runs one) has had flying increased, although this has been across the entire wing so places tend to fill up quickly. But I know this isn’t the situation in all wings.

Having been a Brownie leader, Army Cadet Instructor & married to an ATC unit commander the cadets (and the MPTCs) are there and a good introduction to forces life and culture. Having a ‘Gap Year’ doesn’t really make sense as they would barely complete basic in that time, let alone move onto a specialism. There was a reason National Service was 2 years, even in the vastly less technical forces of the 1950s.

Does cynical me think it’s a ‘back door’ to reintroduce National Service absolutely it is no of course not 😉

NS does seem to work in other countries though, and if there were benefits e.g. reduced Uni fees etc then the ‘Gap’ idea might work.

Air Cadets has been brilliant for my son. To be honest I don't think he joined with any real expectation of flying but he has been a few times. He has also done lots of other brilliant things and he has certainly developed many great skills. One of his friends has really embraced the leadership aspect and I have no doubt this will lead to great things for him. They regularly undertake charity work and whilst I was dubious about air cadets initially I am now firmly a big fan.

If my son wanted a gap year to join the military I would absolutely be worried, given the state of geopolitics right now.

Same, I went from being very wary at the idea to being hugely impressed with the way they are shaping teenagers into really impressive young people.

I feel very mixed about military service but I think we also have to be pragmatic about the way the world is heading.

I think there's a market for people who missed cadets. I know there's OTC, but they have a reputation for just being a drinking club. My family aren't military or outdoorsey at all so I got signed up to ballet and orchestra. I didn't know anyone who did cadets (or even that it existed), but school pushed me into DofE and the military came to career days.

@Paaseitjes

know there's OTC, but they have a reputation for just being a drinking club

Don't know about the OTCs but organisations like the University Air Squadrons have sometimes chosen to adopt a fairly low profile, certainly at some Universities....student politics and all that.

I can't see how it would attract more recruits, I joined the navy aged 16 and it's not for everyone. It's high time we made robots for that job, autonomous drones etc. I wouldn't serve to fight another conflict and my children won't either, it's completely pointless.

If they are planning another world war then most of us won't see the end of it so I'd prefer to spend my last days with my family not in a hot zone.

It's a sad reflection of our species that after so many wars we still can't find a better way forward than sending young people to kill each other. Wars are a business and are won when one side runs out of men or money....most of the time it's money. So whether it's meats sacks getting killed or robots makes no difference because the war gets won when one side can't buy bullets.

What if we are invaded? I think the UK has a different mentality about that from the rest of Europe.

But why would we be invaded? Why is any country invaded ? It’s a failure of politics. It’s a failure for two groups of people to live alongside each other in trust, peace, harmony, fairness ../

But we live in the real world.